Green energy is dumb

[oneoff]

Igot a 3" by 2" panel and putting out over 9000volts.
This gem extracted from a previous post above.

I call bull shit. Six square inches of panel and "9000volts" output NOT.
" Igot a 3" by 2" panel and putting out over 9000volts."
One mistake maybe...but this is truly not within any reasonable parameters.

As mentioned a couple weeks ago; Sask Power has put their special program on 100Kw and under generating output....on hold...for an indeterminate time. They maintain it reached 7.5 Mw of generating capacity. This is truly an insignificant amount of energy and considering that the flares from one battery site could heat a city the size of Moose Jaw; one can only wonder why more emphasis is not and has not been put on utilizing that which is completely wasted (after putting a match to it and releasing all that CO2 for absolutely no benefit of any kind). Except to convert H2S into SO2 etc. Also might as well note that the Sask Power 100Kw program is an order of magnitude (or more) less than flares such as just mentioned.

[oneoff]

For those who want a huge increase in real efficiency (without hardly a bit additional fuel usage)...why nor consider CHP (Combined heat and Power) aka Cogeneration.


It simply means putting waste heat; that is already being produced and vented to the atmosphere; to another productive used before it is finally spent. It means basically free space heating; energy for a greenhouse or producing steam for electricity; heat exchangers; melting snow or what your imagination may dream up.

Those uses can easily double the efficiency of the energy usage in the original combustion of most fuels; especially used in the production of conventional electricity.

[grassfarmer]

Igot a 3" by 2" panel and putting out over 9000volts.
This gem extracted from a previous post above.

I call bull shit. Six square inches of panel and "9000volts" output NOT.
" Igot a 3" by 2" panel and putting out over 9000volts."
One mistake maybe...but this is truly not within any reasonable parameters.

LOL, guess you don't know anything about electric fence energizers! It's a 1 watt solar panel charging a 4 volt battery. Can put out 10,000 volts at max power. Been around for years, cheap simple technology.

[oneoff]

I too am laughing out loud.

Power is measured in watts. What you are talking about is (max) one whole watt; by your own admission.


That's enough to light a 7 watt LED bulb for less than 10 minutes without recharging.
Power is measured by multiplying volts times amperes. If you need 9000Volts output then the amps from a 0ne watt supply have to drop to one nine thousandth of an amp.

I don't apologize for Ohm's law. It has stood the test of time and you tell me what else will run on 0.00011 of an amp and do much useful workl


For sure that 2 inch by 3 inch solar panel itself isn't outputting 9000 volts continuously...nor intermittently There is additional circuitry providing the voltage amplification which in this case is apparently specialized for an electric fencing application.

Such an application would feed pulses into an insulated fence. It's not as though there is actually even close to one watt of power available to anyone trying to connect anything to that fence at any point along maybe even miles of wire.

That where inevitable losses have already come in. You know, infinite resistances not yet attained in insulators or any part of the electric fencer or that attached to it, voltage drops, heat losses and somewhat imperfect battery technology to name a very few. Even your fencing techniques.

As an electric fence shocker it may be remarkable....as a power supply for anything else then I need recharging from some other source to continue laughing.

[oneoff]

Actually the newer solar panels are pretty much resistant to hail - made of different materials to the early ones.
For all the doubters that think solar power only works in summer....

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A simple solar system pumping water out of a slough for 350 head of cattle, keeps up no problem even after days of grey overcast skies and snow. Little solar fencer running a hotwire around it - got a 3" by 2" panel and putting out over 9000volts.

I'll concede that with the appropriate sized battery and a sufficiently large solar panel to recharge it that that watering tub can be simply filled by the setup whenever temperatures don't reach freezing points.

What you infer with the picture (complete with fresh snow is that it is both simple and fool proof). The first cold snap and I would anticipate you'll have continual freeze ups (or continual draining and rethawing episodes) to prevent the pump outlet getting frozen solid into the slough ice surface.

Also known as a continuous fight between the liquid versus solid phases of H20

There's still a lot to be said for an ice free dependable automatic permanent watering system.

[oneoff]

Now you add a heat tape to that system (that works) and I'll be both impressed and will quit laughing.

[oneoff]

Come to think of it.... not enough tracks around that watering tub for 350 head..... and only one tub for that many ...and no solar panel array in sight and a claim that it works more than just in summer and just what do 350 thirsty cattle behave like when they fight for a place in line .

Maybe I need more pictures on a -40 C or F day to become a believer

[grassfarmer]

Oh man, so much dumb! This is the kind of post that really opens my eyes to how little some know yet profess to be experts. Makes me realise how pointless the discussions are on green/alternate power sources when some of those arguing don't know the capabilities of simple technology that has been in use for 20 years on farms and ranches.
Here's a meter reading from that fencer yesterday - it's a short, temporary fence so I didn't bother putting insulators on as I knew we'd have more than adequate power.


The freezing up thing? - guess what we've though of that too! Cheap bilge pump mounted below a float keeps the pump well under the ice and with the supply pipe set up to drain back right through the pump as shown in the picture it gives no trouble. Top edge of the back of the solar panel is visible just above the running water in the original picture - you know it all has to point south!
As for doubting my numbers drinking you can believe me or not. Cows are trailing 1/2 mile off corn grazing so tend to come once a day and fill up on snow the rest of the day. They're smart though, come a few at a time all day so crowding is not an issue - don't drink much this time of year anyway compared to summer.

This is not one of our winter systems as it necessitates breaking ice off the trough every day. Will be done with it for the season in a couple of days. Then we move onto a smarter solution yet for watering - no electric or solar power and works without issues below -40C. Maybe think about this and come back in a couple of days and tell us all how it can't work?

[binthere]

Hydrant watering bowl. Activated by cattle. Wish those were out when I had cattle.

[oneoff]

I once argued with a veterinarian as to whether one could syphon water more than 28 feet above the water level surface in a well. Just because you have lots of elevation drop doesn't mean it will ever work.

This solar pump setup is likely to suffer the same flaw in basic laws of physics. Water at slough ice surface will be at nearly same level as "water/ice" in discharge pipe which inevitably has to at some point enter just below the "water level" of the slough. Without some method of keeping the pipe (in the freezing zone) free of water I don't see how it will ever avoid freezing up when any water body is frozen over..
And when those 350 animals start to back up(out of cue); don't be near that water trough when you finally get it thawed out.

Just because you don't know what I'm talking about doesn't mean you won't always have to learn everything from your own personal experience.

[oneoff]

Glad to hear you have a different water system for winter watering of 350 head. The one mentioned previously seem very problematic as to freezing at slough surface..

Your setup of training cows to have no preference between "eating snow" and having abundant water available seems like something we could all learn from. Care to share how that is accomplished?.

[sumdumguy]

Anthony Watt explains how global warming is a computer-generated phenomenon, subject to "adjustments to data" that are subject to biases. Go figure! I would have never believed it! But I do have a science background and have generated laboratiey data and adjusted somewhat to prove my point so I guess it is totally plausible that people at NASA and other temperature data compilation centres with an agenda that reflects upon their livelihood could possibly "round up".

Aside from the adjustment aspect, there are up to ten other "known" reasons to doubt the data. Feel free to google the article Chucky.

[Klause]

Frost free pumps work with risers and an insulated top
They don't freeze because they take advantage of geothermal heat.


We used to have thrifty king waterers from Ritchie in MB. No heat in them. As long as cows drank they stayed free of frost thanks to insulation and the heat rising from the riser tube burried to 16'.


And yes solar fencers work with small... Very small solar panels. Super high voltage and extremely low amperage.

Especially on a short fence like that.


I see no problem with what grassy is doing and it works...

[grassfarmer]

LOL, you think you're a genius oneoff but instead of being ahead of us you don't realize you are a lap behind!
Of course I know the limitations of that watering system. Once the source freezes over hard enough to walk on you place a couple of small bales of straw over the pump/intake pipe and that keeps it working down to -20C.
You don't need to teach cows to eat snow, they're often smarter than their owners! There are many times we have wintered cows completely on snow but the conditions don't always allow this. Cows on any type of extended season grazing where they are eating through snow are already taking in a good portion of their water requirements. Our herd's preference in winter is to walk once a day to water and lick snow the rest of the time if it's available. And you know what? the research proves that licking snow is actually better for the cow. Cows create a lot of heat while digesting forage which they have to dissipate and this fits well with taking snow on board in small quantities throughout the day. For the cow to go to a trough and drink her daily fill in one go taxes her body considerably more as she suddenly has a large volume of cold water to warm up to body temperature.

[oneoff]

Grassy...I'll save the word "dotard" for later