The case for a carbon tax (and refund system)

[grassfarmer]

Excellent article by Darrin Qualman in the MB Cooperator this week. Page 5 at the following link.

[URL="http://static.agcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MBC170420.pdf#_ga=1.261778829.1283490176.137994099 2"]http://https://static.agcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MBC170420.pdf#_ga=1.261778829.1283490176.137994099 2[/URL]

I think this is the smart way to approach this issue given that: a) climate change is real. b) a carbon tax is coming. c) denial is not a solution.

[westernvicki]

Australia kicked the carbon tax to the curb, they like us are an export based economy and found it was a detriment to business and a cost to society.

Reward conservation if you are serious, this is a tax.

[Braveheart]

That looks like an administrative nightmare. It also makes more to finance till some rebate comes through. If this is the best Qualman could come up with from deep within NFU headquarters they're in more trouble than usual.

The fact is, A CARBON TAX WILL DO NOTHING TO MITIGATE CLIMATE CHANGE. It's only a way to attack corporations and business.

[chuckChuck]

That looks like an administrative nightmare. It also makes more to finance till some rebate comes through. If this is the best Qualman could come up with from deep within NFU headquarters they're in more trouble than usual.

The fact is, A CARBON TAX WILL DO NOTHING TO MITIGATE CLIMATE CHANGE. It's only a way to attack corporations and business.

So are you saying that raising the price of any commodity or service does not change usage or consumption? When gasoline hit a $1.50 per litre because of high oil prices a few years ago did consumption go up or down?

If the price of oil reached $200 per barrel next month would the world use more oil or less oil?

This is basic economics. A carbon tax will raise the price of gasoline and will reduce consumption. By how much will depend on the price. This will in turn will reduce carbon emissions.

Even Steven Harper signed onto an agreement with other developed countries that the world needs to move away from carbon based energy by the year 2100. How fast and how far we can go is the question.

[chuckChuck]

BC has had a carbon tax that is revenue neutral and their economy is doing relatively well.

[SASKFARMER3]

Yea chuck BC stands for Bring Cash. They are doing so well because of a housing boom. My brothers shack in North Van is worth a small fortune.

But a Carbon tax is a tax and now JT will add GST to that tax so a tax on a tax is still a tax.

Most intelligent people realize that conservation is a good thing but what the Politicians are pushing is just plain nuts.

[Hamloc]

There are a couple points I agree with in this article. First there is no doubt that carbon taxes will eventually reach 100 dollars per tonne, I think 200-300 a tonne is where they will peak. Look at tobacco taxes, when I was a kid in 1980 I could buy a pack for 1 dollar, I haven't smoked for years but that same pack is over 14 dollars now and people still smoke. At 200 dollars a tonne carbon emissions would be lowered because there would be much less employment. The second thing I will agree with is that the large corps supplying all our inputs are making the money not the farmers, that is obvious. And if you think our urban controlled governments would allow farmers to get back all the carbon tax you are dreaming.

[blackpowder]

Sin taxes appear to only work so so.
Direct taxes on poor even with refund is still a hit.

[farming101]

When gas was 1.50 a liter poor people with no access to additional funds used less.
No one else cut back as verified by the speed of traffic at the time

[chuckChuck]

Agriculture will need some kind of rebate, exemption or protection from higher input costs. How this will be done is not clear since each province can decide. Agriculture will also have to change practices to reduce emissions. Getting credits for carbon emission reducing practices and stored carbon would be beneficial.

[chuckChuck]

Poor people use less of everything including food, housing and health care. The problem is the poverty not the price.

[SASKFARMER3]

Chuck your comment Ag will have to do things to reduce emissions.

WTF is my comment. And WTF have we been doing since 1981. Direct seeding has caused our farm to go from work in fall, work in spring seed and harrow to one pass. Using 4 times less diesel. Then were strait cutting our crops which have cut down on harvest diesel. Our tractors are all DEF and that has added a great cost to our farm for air pollution controls.

Yet a city genius like you thinks we have to do more as farmers are you F$%King kidding me.

How about paying me the true value of what we have done with Carbon sink and not making up bull shit that its just a small amount.

This is a liberal tax grab and wealth redistribution.

[Braveheart]

But Chuck, reducing emissions won't fix climate change only slow future change. According to the Chicken Littles of the world it's already too late.

What is needed is ways to sequester the carbon out there. Will a carbon tax plant one tree? Nope. The opposite. Farmers will need even more acres to survive so land clearing will increase.

[blackpowder]

Notice Chuck's observation re "the problem is the poverty, not the price."
Quite logical really. But notice how he wants to eradicate poverty through the highest attainable price.
ala Norway. Seems to me farmers, are by the numbers, in the "upper"class. Where's our heart? Where's our sense of social justice?
I have a farming neighbor who could be writing this stuff. He certainly practices what he preaches.
Good citizen. But can the govt over time shape everyone's mindset to be the same? Or just tax them all into the same bracket.
Govt can then decide what size farm qualifies etc. Also how estates are transferred.

Just think, with legal pot, $15/gal hippie raised milk and equal access to everything.....paradise.
But no one will care or know the difference.

[fjlip]

Climate is TOO F*CKING COLD, screw all the bullshit. Put up your hand, WHO wants it COLDER?
Is there any government in the world that has their citizen's best interests at heart?
Are there ANY statesmen/women?
I see none, nobody is happy, all citizens are divided on all issues.