Nikola hydrogen electric semi trucks

[fjlip]

I think it would be easier/simpler/cheaper just to QUIT, rather than go through so much change...at this age I am now.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I didn't read enough about this project, but have they found a way to create the hydrogen fuel that does not involve burning hydrocarbons? Last I checked, the process to create hydrogen fuel was very energy intensive vs. what you get back out of it. But perhaps that is still better than a battery large enough to power heavy trucks and equipment over the life cycle of that machine?

I am no Luddite, and am all for weaning ourselves from hydrocarbons for a host of reasons. Also really excited about this technology. But as far as I can tell it is just moving the energy generation from one place to another, not finding a new efficient source of that energy. If I missed something, please let me know.

[oneoff]

This exercpt comes directly from the link mallee provided a couple of threads up. For those who didn't open the article themselves....it concludes that renewable energy was responsible for the electrical grid failure; statewide in Austrailia. The implication is obviously that circumstances no one or engineer might contemplate the first time will be repeated sometime again...for sure...if you don't pay attention to the lessons history has provided. Listen up chuck et al. and see if once you consider for yourself (of course); if there shouldn't be some sober thought before 1000 new horses get put into every cart and instantly make all current vehicles obsolete. As a side note; its probable we'll see driverless vehicles a lot quicker than mass hydrogen cell motors.


QUOTE
South Australia's renewables-heavy power mix was a factor in the statewide blackout in September, a new report by the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) has confirmed.

The report is the third in a series of investigations into the extraordinary loss of power during wild storms.

Previous reports confirmed a series of tornadoes severed high-voltage power lines, setting off a catastrophic chain of faults which resulted in the Heywood interconnector being cut off.

The interconnector failure left the state islanded from the national power grid and prompted a massive and rapid fluctuation of frequency, forcing all generators across South Australia to go offline.




Historically, the rate of frequency change following an interconnector failure has been managed successfully using load shedding, as demonstrated during a blackout earlier this month.

But the AEMO found in September, "the proportionally low amount of conventional generation dispatched in SA at the time of separation, and the subsequent low inertia, resulted in a higher [rate of change of frequency] than had been experienced during previous separation events".

Prior to the statewide blackout, windfarms had been providing 883 megawatts (MW) of power, the interconnector was operating close to its limit and providing 613 MW, while traditional thermal generators were providing just 330 MW of electricity.

Some of the state's biggest gas generators, including Pelican Point, were not operating.

The AEMO has subsequently ordered that two major gas-fired power stations remain online at all times in South Australia to keep the grid in a secure operating state.

[oneoff]

Compressed natural gas vehicles have a choice of 80 aboutpublically available refueling stations across Canada. Probably one in Regina and another at Yorkton and thats about it for Sask.

FYI Compressed Natural gas just didn't catch on in Canada like it has in many parts of the world.. And it does have significant advantages over gasoline and diesel powered transportation vehicles; especially including transit and high mileage, durable heavy trucks and even any vehicle for short range use too.

Probably the major drawbacks of CNG are the characteristics of the fuel itself. Just as the major advantages are the characteristics of the fuel itself.

You see its all about producing, containing (storing) a relatively safe; relatively non toxic; concentrated energy source that can be handled and oxidized without exploding or burning yourself (and others) up under any extremes of temperature; accident or equipment failure. Any; even relatively infrequent failure and your energy source falls into recall, lawsuits;disfavor and sets the advancement back decades until the problem gets solved and someone else typically comes along with an advanced product. You can't force major changes which are never problem free nor completely understood.

Now for CNG (compressed natural gas) its relatively low fuel density that is a major problem Same with hydrogen. With natural gas it must be contained in tanks; and even at 3000 to 3600psi those tanks are expensive (and real heavy if made of steel ); relatively costly if composite aluminum or carbon fibre etc); really large and space consuming no matter what they are made of....and still only hold not many gallons of gasoline equivalent. Thus small driving ranges; trunk space all taken up with a tank(s); real expensive compressors needed; costly; high maintenance; computers; training; makes oxygen tanks and refilling look like low pressure wimps
Same will apply to hydrogen fuel supplied vehicles; except hydrogen is real explosive compared to natural gas which has different characteristics of dispersal; ignition requirements and has been around long enough in application like many homes and even vehicles particularly in other nations and continents. Hell it takes some research to even get a handle on basic theory of operation.. All anyone knew for decades was that its the coming thing; and a decade from now it will have advanced somewhat; but that sales pitch about cheap and last forever and no maintenance or fuel cost will still wring hollow. High pressure precision equipment , state of art and computer driven; non fixable; and in house controlled will always be a captive market driven cash cow. At expense of consumers. consumers for

Now for those still not lost; these commentsalso relate to hydrogen which in last months is now seen as the ultimate environmentally friendly fuel.

But do respect it; as evidenced by the Hindenburg airship explosion; and the space shuttle that blew up from an o-ring failure.

Those 400 plus hydrogen refueling stations aren't going to be up and running by 2020; let alone being in Canada; but then there won't be 5000 trucks made by then with 1000 horse power and even with 1/2 the fuel required no one has mentioned the process to be used to produce the hydrogen....in short none of this will come together as projected. Just like the apt election campaign about the prime minister "Not yet ready" And no i'm not conservative nor NDP; but sure want to see how Trump screws things up. Any good progress from his tenure; and asuming the CIA tolerates him...his franchise brand may indeed spread worldwide...quickly

Sure its a work in progress; but early adopters will find that Canada isn't the place to work the bugs out in the prototypes. Run out of fuel; need a mechanic 400 miles away from help and your red jerry can ain't gonna be of any use.

Remember flex fuel vehicles. What a waste of money and resources. As I remember 60 or 80 percent of owners still don't even know their vehicles can run on 85% ethanol (and nobody could tell me where they could get 85% ethanol in Prairie provinces) especially because its been found that under our winter conditions anything more than 70% ethanol has its own set of problems). Thus , even in northern parts of the US 85% ethanol pumps dispense a maximum of 70 % ethanol.

What is practical and actually can even work is all hidden in the details that few have any time or respect for.

[oneoff]

32,00) Lithium Ion batteries all welded together in a battery pack. Wonder how you replace a bad cell?

320 Kw battery pack. puts that John Deere tractor one to shame. Could easily have bragging rights for biggest Guiness record flashlight setup.

Can't figure out where the hydrogen storage tank is positioned on the truck. Any ideas? Has to be stored as a liquid to get enough energy to propel the vehicle 1200 miles (one would think)

[chuckChuck]

I am cheering Nikola Trucks on. If they succeed this will be a great achievement and move transportation and humanity forward. We should always be a little skeptical of any new inventions and claims. But since there already trucking companies lining up there must be something substantial behind Nikola's plans.

Oneof you are seem very negative about any technology that doesn't fit your way of thinking that we may be able to survive and prosper without fossil energy. I prefer to keep an open mind.

By the way Nikola plans to use solar energy to make hydrogen. They also plan to set up in Canada. Using hydrogen fuel cells has been one of the goals of engineers for decades.

Toyota already has a prototype of a hydrogen fuel cell electric car.

The hybrid electric Prius has been one of Toyota's most succesfull cars. The Prius gets incredible city mileage and they make great taxis because they are cheap to operate. Toyota has been a leader in hybrid electric and they will likely make a good fuel cell car as well.

Once that happens oil will become less important quickly.

Western Canada better continue to diversify our economy.

[oneoff]

Fill us in about how until very recently super B's and semi's, as you claimed, should not be an option to transporting grain ; and those who had them wrecked roads and should realize what negative effects they were causing.; and let us in on your experience about your new 1000 hp hydrogen truck(s). Maybe even tell us your delivery date; where the closest hydrogen fuel refilling stations are. Same with your anticipated connection to Sask Power and solar panels. Remember the rebate program is capped at 100% and Sask Power won't let their 20% contribution put you over the top. Of course;theoretically Sask Power could be collected first and money might be made milking every other handout later.

Meanwhile, at no taxpayers expense; I know project that has been running 10,000 near continuous hours; no begging done; nor intended in future. It'll stay at the testing phase until its fully proven; accepted by an electrical utility and only if Brad Wall can keep his act together and successfully fight for some major change to the additional tax.

If it can't stand on ts own merits it will fail without a whimper. It's costing 6 figures so far; is paid for; and contains lots of relatively new facets to be polished involving CNG; existing technology with flex fuels and year 2000 and up vehicles.
It may well get tied into Sask Power Small Power Producers program once this "carbon tax" horseshit gets clarified...but not until its clear that locking oneself into a 20 year contact will just result in a direct subsidy from a small power producer to Sask Power and the sector of its customers who feel entitled to live off the labors of those building this province and not just those with the ear of sympathetic marijuana promoters and "save the planet" zealots.

And changing topics; why is everyone so quiet about Federal Gov't task force on new marijuana rules.

Any restrictions on smoking in public etc. What indeed is this world coming to.....Somebody start a thread please. I'm against this initiative too; and predict there will be ddrug and society problems even worse than current


I'm against stupidity and destroying current proven technology before the replacement is ready and functional

Are we "ready yet"?? Prove it. If I want entertainment and Star Wars fascination; those very interesting articles have been written decades ago (and repeated and enlarged upon at intervals in between). Already seen that and enjoyed it; but in the real world; only what works long term and is sustainabl, practical and has most of the bugs worked out.

There has to be some net benefit somewhere or its a colossal failure and waste of money and resources.

[oneoff]

Facts are pretty thin when the references are only to prototypes....and planning to use solar panels to generate hydrogen and planning to have refueling stations in Canada.

And city cars that couldn't navigate a snow bank if it tried.

Not yet quite ready yet...not tomorrow and couldn't possibly do the complete job for at least a decade (or even decades if every star aligned perfectly).

We shouldn't allow one bit of still working necessary infrastructure to be destroyed or forced to shut down; before the replacement is available, working and proven.

[chuckChuck]

Technology for the oil sands was also developed by governments. There have been tax incentives and reduced royalties to encourage development. It is well know fact that the oil and gas industry is also subsidized in several ways.

We have also tolerated an oil cartel called OPEC that controls supplies and drives up prices for consumers. Not to mention all the pollution and environmental damage that is not paid for by the oil industry. Plus all the military expenses used to secure mid east supplies.

So if you are going to argue for a level playing field for renewables you better acknowledge the full costs of the oil industry.

In no way I am advocating abandoning fossil energy untill we have workable reliable alternatives. But the transition has already started and it is the interest of humanity to move towards renewable forms of low cost cleaner energy.

Looking at or supporting alternatives and policies to encourage renewables is in the public interest.