Two guy's idea of an Alberta strategy

[grassfarmer]

Two guy's idea of an Alberta strategy to deal with some of it's problems.

[URL="http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/11/04/Clean-Up-Plan-for-Alberta-Oil-Pollution/"]http://http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/11/04/Clean-Up-Plan-for-Alberta-Oil-Pollution/[/URL]

[SASKFARMER]

Get rid of the useless NDP you don't need two guys to figure that out!

[grassfarmer]

If the NDP were the problem....which they aren't. The problems discussed here have been building for 30 years or more only 18 months of which the NDP has governed, the rest was solidly of PC making.

[stonepicker]

Grassfarmer. What have the conservatives done that's so bad in the past? The richest province in the country, lowest prov. debt, ( which the ndp are going to triple in one year ) prob. the best roads in the country, lowest unemployment and all this while having to pay 100's of billions in welfare payments to the rest of the country.

[stonepicker]

Between 2000-2014 alberta paid 200 billion in equalization payments, quite a chunk of change to take from a province eh grass farmer? There's good reason why alta. couldn't put money in the bank.

[perfecho]

Really Stone....the richest and yet no money in the bank (Prentices's budget was also a deficit).... a system that did not collect the royalties that were deserved and, as we found out later, not even collected on. A system that allowed some to not even pay there fair share of taxes...a system that is going to leave us with a real mess to clean up at our cost...a system that did took the low hanging fruit and couldn't plan into the future....a system that rewarded their buddies...a system that got full of themselves. Sure, the equalization is a problem, but that doesn't excuse the mismanagement.
So...you are saying corruption is good...as long as it's making me money....or at least that's what I hear.
The Nd's are not the answer down the road, but they have done some things that were long over due...although blinders don't usually let some see other than what they want.
And don't forget, equalization did come to Alberta many, many years ago....but now it's unfair.

[grassfarmer]

Stonepicker read the article and see how Government policies in AB over the last 30 years have left the taxpayer on the hook for hundreds of billions of dollars in environmental remediation work that's what the PCs allowed under their watch. This is a serious issue and one that affects farmers and ranchers in AB and will increasingly affect them in the future. It's nothing to do with transfer payments to other provinces.

[stonepicker]

Let me know when you find the perfect party perfecto , i've never seen one. Co's create jobs, industry creates jobs, in your ndp world these are bad things. I don't agree with gov. corruption, but i do believe in free enterprise and smaller gov.

[grassfarmer]

On the royalty issue economist Mark Anielski studied how the province would have benefited if it had kept Lougheed's approach to a robust and healthy royalty regime.

"Had Alberta maintained a 30 per cent royalty rate on the share of the value of the oil and gas produced between 1971 to 2014, Albertans would have generated $471.4 billion in oil and gas royalties. Had 50 per cent of these royalties been invested in the Alberta Heritage Savings and Trust Fund with annual average return of five per cent per annum we would now have an investment account worth over $481 billion."

Last time I checked there was about $18 billion in the AHSTF. We could have paid $200 billion in transfer payments and still been well ahead stonepicker if they just didn't give the resource away for peanuts.

[blackpowder]

OK, so we screwed up. I agree. We can't take money we don't have now, and aren't going to make in the future, to clean up anything today, to a unnecessary standard.

[sumdumguy]

As I remember it, Saskatchewan and Alberta were competing for oil exploration and each one was cutting royalties to entice oil companies to their own side of the provincial border. Not such a great idea in hindsight.

[Hamloc]

A recent article by Jack Mintz pointed out that after the recent NDP royalty review and minor tweaking to the royalty structure the NDP will be collecting lower royalties on conventional oil and gas than the PC's were. A little bit ironic since the NDP have said for years the PC's weren't charging high enough royalties. And still in 2017 it is projected that there will be more oil wells drilled in Saskatchewan than Alberta for the first time in 36 years.

[grassfarmer]

A recent article by Jack Mintz pointed out that after the recent NDP royalty review and minor tweaking to the royalty structure the NDP will be collecting lower royalties on conventional oil and gas than the PC's were. A little bit ironic since the NDP have said for years the PC's weren't charging high enough royalties. And still in 2017 it is projected that there will be more oil wells drilled in Saskatchewan than Alberta for the first time in 36 years.

I agree Hamloc, that was the point I was making in my thread AB and $50 oil below. The fact the NDP royalty review was a farce is the worst thing I've heard about them since they came to power - it's an indication that yet another AB Government has been bought by big oil.
Stonepicker however was arguing that royalties should, and are, charged on a sliding basis depending on market price of oil which would let the NDP out of jail on this one which I'm sure wasn't his intention.

[URL="https://www.agriville.com/threads/32754-ab-and-50-oil"]http://https://www.agriville.com/threads/32754-ab-and-50-oil[/URL]

What I hadn't read until yesterday was the fact that a 3 year moratorium on royalties was introduced in 2009 on hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling projects. Now I understand why we were overrun by fracking crews putting wells under every quarter in my part of Alberta, riding in like the new kings of the land. Paying less compensation to landowners than previous activity, taking reckless risks with ground water and riding roughshod over property rights like never before - and they were paying ZERO royalties. That makes my blood boil.

[stonepicker]

Grassfarmer, i agree that alta. could've done better with their heritage fund but again it's pretty tough when you have to give billions to the east. You and guys like chuck and forage keep saying that alta. has been ruined by 30 years of conservative rule, i'm saying what are you talking about? they're still the strongest prov. in the country! Look at ontario ( 300 billion debt. ) or quebec, our no.1 welfare province. As far as the ndp party, i don't agree with their general philosophies, but if they or any party do what's best for the prov., good on them.

[perfecho]

Well, Stone...we do agree on something..."the perfect party"....there isn't one, never will be. We shouldn't', IMHO, even have parties...it should be people you vote for individually...make them accountable to their region, not have to "toe the party line", just because. That would be representation...
The only way in party politics, is to keep switching them out after a couple of terms.
I, too, agree with free enterprise, but this isn't free enterprise. Many favors went to friends, little was done to stop monopolies... I could bring up the electrical deregulation again, the favors to Elzinga and the tar sands, and the list goes on. Ever since Reaganomics lowered taxes on corporations and put it on the middleclass, corporations have had way to much power....and money. (Buyouts are a major issue today in the corporate world...)
The ND's didn't get the royalty right, agreed, but their hands were tied.....they did give it to a panel to do, and kudo's for that, but the economic/political face of the day did help dictate the results.
Honestly, I think we got what we needed for the time, but they won't be the answer for down the road. I even agree with the carbon tax, however, more from a "we waste so damn much, we need to wake up" point of view. PS...look what "free enterprise" is doin to us right now....we are paying at least 30-40 cents more for gasoline than we should, and yet most on this board are way more critical of the 5 cents coming up for the carbon tax. Really...can't see the forest for the trees.....

Had breakfast with a handful of real ND haters yesterday, they are helping with the petition to stop them, however, after our discussion, they could not disagree with any of the points...just the method. The root of their frustration seemed to be the "ramming" that Notely seems to be doing...and I can see how that can be an issue.