Who's lying, Harper or Ritter?

[Fransisco]

From the Winnipeg Free Press

<b>Plenty of rot on PM's barley facts: CWB</b>

Fri Oct 19 2007
By Larry Kusch

PRIME Minister Stephen Harper got his facts wrong when he told the House of Commons Wednesday that barley prices have gone down since a court struck down a federal bid to end the Canadian Wheat Board's sales monopoly, the CWB said Thursday.

The board also claimed that Prairie farmers can expect "significantly higher returns this year than their American counterparts due to the disciplined selling of the CWB."

During the throne speech debate Wednesday, Harper said: "When it looked like there would be marketing choice for western barley farmers last spring, prices went up. When marketing choice was swept off the table, prices went down."

That comment didn't sit well with the Winnipeg-based wheat board, which said Thursday that barley prices have actually risen since a Federal Court ruling.

Wheat board chairman Ken Ritter said in a statement the "full story" shows that from June 11 to July 31, grain companies anticipating an open market were offering farmers contracts of up to $4.75 a bushel for malting barley.

However, since the court decision July 31, markets have climbed to the point where the CWB is projecting returns of "up to $5.06 per bushel at an Alberta farm gate."

He said this estimated return may continue to rise as the wheat board makes more sales.

Ritter said in an interview the CWB didn't issue the press release to get into a fight with the prime minister.

"(But) when there are statements made that are inaccurate, we have to correct the record," he said.

Federal Liberal agriculture critic Wayne Easter issued a statement Thursday accusing Harper of "deliberately and intentionally misleading Parliament."

Easter said it was about time the prime minister "acknowledge the facts rather than attempt to distort the truth to suit his ideological agenda."

The Conservative government was bitterly disappointed with Federal Court decision, which quashed its plans to open up Prairie barley marketing.

The government has appealed the decision to the Federal Court of Appeal, which may not hear the case until well into 2008 unless one of the parties requests -- and is granted -- an expedited ruling.

Barley prices on the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange fell immediately after the court ruling, but world grain prices have generally strengthened since the beginning of August.

larry.kusch@freepress.mb.ca

[Fransisco]

And the truth shall set you free.

Check out these charts for the answer.

http://www.siemenssays.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/barley-comparisons.pdf

[Fransisco]

Looks like its the boys and girls at 423 main street who have their facts all mixed up.

Again.

[Fransisco]

Here's what the wheat growers have to say about the whole thing.

<b>CWB Continues to Spread False Information on Barley</b>

“The Wheat Board is painting a false picture of the impact of the July 31 court decision that overturned the free market in barley,” says Cherilyn Jolly-Nagel, President of the Wheat Growers. “Farmers were taking advantage of strong world prices before the court decision and would now have access to even stronger prices if the CWB monopoly wasn’t standing in the way.”

The Wheat Growers are responding to a CWB press release issued yesterday which tried to suggest that barley farmers were better off under the monopoly, and falsely accused the Prime Minister of providing inaccurate information in the House of Commons.

The attached price charts, which compare the difference in feed barley prices in the cash market between Montana and Alberta clearly show that Alberta prices rose relative to U.S. prices in the weeks following the March 28 announcement of a proposed free market in barley, and then fell dramatically in the wake of the July 31 court decision overturning the proposed free market. Leading up to the court decision, Alberta feed barley cash prices were trading as much as $35 per tonne above Montana cash prices. As of last Friday, Alberta cash feed barley prices were $73 per tonne below Montana values. In recent years, more than 70% of barley produced on the prairies has been sold into the off-Board feed market.

“The CWB is misleading farmers,” says Stephen Vandervalk, Alberta Vice-President of the Wheat Growers. “It doesn’t matter whether you look at spot prices or average prices, the returns the CWB is providing western farmers are far below the market returns that are being received by U.S. farmers, for either feed or malt barley.”

World barley prices have strengthened considerably in recent months. At Vancouver, the world price for two-row malt barley was $324 per tonne yesterday, according to the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange. Backing this price off to an Alberta farm gives a return of $5.81 per bushel, which is well above the CWB’s projected pooled return on Special Select malting barley of $5.06 per bushel or its fixed price of $4.51 per bushel, basis Alberta.

“We urge the Canadian Wheat Board to immediately stop its campaign of misinformation and partisan attacks,” says Jolly-Nagel. “The federal government should also move decisively to give us marketing freedom as quickly as possible. Many farmers want the ability to capture the strong prices now available on world markets, rather than rely on the phantom projections of the CWB.

[wd9]

I think Fransisco is lying because he spelt his name wrong, it really is Francisco.

Neither is lying, they both have goals to achieve and are doing what their respective organizations feel is the best strategy. Flame on.

[chaffmeister]

Can you call it lying when you don't know what you're talking about?

[chaffmeister]

Let me re-phrase that... can you call it lying when THEY don't know what THEY'RE talking about?

(I'm talkin' bout Ritter.)

[Fransisco]

I was wondering when somebody would finally notice. Finger slipped when I originally signed up and as far as I can tell there is no way to correct it.

And sorry I don't buy the everybody is right and everybody is wrong all at the same time theory.

Check the chart again, Harper is right, Ritter is wrong.

[craig]

The CWB is very good at selectively picking the numbers to back their case. Right now they will push the returns they are getting for durum because for one of the few times in history they are the only game in town. While they quote their expected returns for malt they neglect to quote or compare to current U.S. prices or where we would be in an open market. The reality is that while they have been able to get away with this in the past, producers are becoming better informed and access to U.S. and world prices are available everyday. Maybe we need a poll of producers as to wether they think they would rather have U.S. prices or our prices( whose better off). What is implied by the CWB is that they are better marketers of our grain than we are. Recent sales programs by the board would indicate that their record is in fact not likely any better than our own.

[Fransisco]

It doesn't look like they're doing that great a job on Durum right now either. The prices in the States are almost double what the pro is.

[chaffmeister]

The fundamental issue around CWB public comments is "preservation of the CWB". Whenever you read ANYTHING presented by the CWB, keep this in mind and all will make sense.

It doesn't matter that Harper is factually correct - what matters is that his comments made the CWB look bad. The CWB's interest is in spinning it around so that they can draw positive light on themselves. First they say Harper was wrong but as evidence they talk about what the trade was paying for malt barley and then what the PRO is now for malt barley. They don't talk about why the barley market dropped like a dead cat following the judge's ruling.

They talk about the market as if its some disembodied entity that the trade simply follows - prices simply emerge out of --- whatever. They totally miss the point that the market price is a function of many people making independent decisions, based on what is going on around them. There's a very good reason why the barley market in Western Canada dropped - because barley buyers dropped their prices. In writing up their release, did the CWB interview any barley traders asking why they dropped their prices? If they didn't, shame on them. If they did and didn't reflect their opinions in their release, shame on them.

Also remember - the CWB was arguing against what they saw as Harper suggesting the ONLY reason the barley market went down was the return of the single desk. (Only a myopic idiot would believe that that was what Harper was trying to say - but I digress.) As evidence to back up their argument they talk about how the CWB price is higher now than earlier when the grain companies were setting prices. Are they suggesting this is because of the CWB? And maybe, if you're gullible, that its ONLY because of the CWB?

As far as the CWB PR department is concerned, their job is done if you are left with the impression that if the price is going down, its not their fault, and if the price is going up, it is their fault.


As a childhood hero of mine used to say "Good Grief!"

[TOM4CWB]

Chaffmeister,

Well put... the further the CWB pushes their "Facts" the deeper the hole gets they are digging! When the reason for existence is the "Single Desk" instead of maximising grain grower returns... this result should not be unexpected!

Interesting that Rod Flaman would pick the Liberal good ship Titanic... over the CWB's sinking Jolly Rodger! Seems like they both have the same Captain!

Goodales Revenge isn't done yet... this is politics at its _ _ _ _ _

We do live in interesting times!

[Incognito]

Consider the politics of this:

Farmer discontent is growing and a responsible government knows this.

The Liberals are walking down the Green Mile. Dead men walking. You too Vader.

The CWB is looking is trying to save its Bacon (pun) by advancing their choice for CEO.

1) Public opinion is shifting
2) Liberals are useless with Borat
3) CWB needs a friend in government


What do you do?

Poke the Prime Minister in the eye.

Maybe the dumbest thing I've ever seen - and these are the people who are responsible for your bottom line in barley, wheat and durum.

[cropduster]

Meanwhile..... the convoy grows!!!!!!!!!877-554-2106.

[Incognito]

Cause we got a little 'ole convoy
Rockin through the night
Yeah we got a little 'ole convoy
Ain't she a beautiful sight
C'mon and join our Convoy
Ain't nothin gonna get in our way
We gonna roll this truckin convoy 'cross the USA
Convoy....Convoy.....