Vertical Tillage

[furrowtickler]

I think a dry year is overdue here as well, but would still work pulse stb and low areas all the same. Unless it is a complete drought. We have had too many springs with frost damage in canola not to blacken up soil a bit.

[cottonpicken]

Salford does not work as great on flax straw,tried doing my neighbours for him,if the ground is dry and hard,for get it,but im on shittier soil maybe better on good stuff,those machines are hard to predict what they will do,every situation is different.

Anyone try the deglman,would love to see it in action.

[furrowtickler]

Watched a Degleman and a Joker this fall , both can rip er up good but not as smooth of finish as a Lemkin or case. Wether that means anything I do not Know , I would have no idea till it came time to seed and see emergence.
I do know that on wheat stb if you are doing the whole field be carefull - it can end up causing more grief at seeding than doing nothing at all depending on air drill .
The Salford style seems to work the best in standing wheat then to seed in spring . The oyher high speed disk machines can rip out too much straw and cause plugging night mares with twin shank seeding outfits in wheat ( seed hawk, master)

[Hopperbin]

Thanks furrow that was my main thinking of not trying a machine that burries the straw. Burried straw means plowing through that straw with the seedmaster or whatever your seeding tool. So I am still harrowing double if have to and very shallow cult only in places. Straw belongs on surface in my opinion. Deep working means also soft soil in which the planting tool will also sink. In all one is trying to put the seeds in the best advantage when planting and weeds not so. And taking care of excess moisture. Few different methods being used here also.

[furrowtickler]

No prob, been watching these different types of machines for 7 years now, (tried first Salford in corn and pea stb in 2007).
We just heavy harrow wheat and canola stb as well, then go in and do low spots and sloughs if needed.
If you heavy harrow first then do a tillage pass it does make a better job come spring seeding.
Funny thing is we never did any fall work for 8 years(after drought) not even harrow after heavy wheat, never had a seeding problem with trash clearence.
Then the cooler springs(frosts) just about killed us along with uneven germ in canola - too much thatch build up. Wheat on canola stb was starting to show strips from the chaff rows and was uneaven at heading. Then wet summers and ruts came along and wetter springs which made seeding pea stb interesting and inefficient.
Most of you in Eastern Sask have been dealing with this for a lot longer and have a lot more experience than we do here out west. So we are no experts on this , just giving some insight into what we have seen.
Glad we are doing harrowing and tilling the last few years though - made a big diff in our crop and our efficiency at seeding. I am sure this same story can be told by many others all over the place(S/F and others).
The pea stubble worked last fall was 4 deg warmer this spring than untouched pea stubble - and it showed big time, same with guys who did wheat stubble.
A warm dry spring may be the reverse???

At any rate I think these tillage machines are here to stay and will be used in many different situations beyond just a V/T pass. You will see a resurgence of fertilizer, granular herbicide and other attachments on them to better utilize the cost/ac of ownership. Just a tough pill to swallow at $100 G .

[Klause]

If you berry the straw soil bacteria will decompose it by spring...


Leaving it all on top covering the ground you may as well leave the tractor in the shed.


The point of these machines is to incorporate residue for quick breakdown blacken the earth and firm it for seeding without causing compaction layers or mixing of soil horizons.

[Hopperbin]

Oh give us a break with the bullshit.

[cottonpicken]

Lol,and get your seeder through it.

[furrowtickler]

Most guys found out here that 'burying' the wheat straw last fall was a big mistake unless it was heavy harrowed first, especially CPS white wheat, It does not break down fast enough. Buried straw plugs far worse than standing stubble.

[Hopperbin]

In one month time will be frozen for six months Unthawed just in time for planting.

[Tucker]

Buried residue will use nitrogen from the soil to decompose. Residue on the surface inoculated with dirt with use nitrogen from the air. I agree that not much decomposition happens for 6 months at -20c. Standing stubble holding trash goes through the seedhawk in the spring very well for that first and hopefully only pass. That old surface trash decomposes through the summer. By fall the only residue left will be from new crop. That's the promise and holy grail of zero-till.

After 6 years of zero-till I have that. There is still some standing stubble from past years but the ground below between the stems is bare black at swathing time. Any spade-full of dirt from any of my fields is now full of earthworms. Those first years trying this sucked but true zero-till is working here very well.

$100K? LOL I'll never own a vertical tillage machine. I did work the ruts from getting stuck with the hawk and spraying with a shallow cultivator. It's your farm. Spend the money if you want but I don't think it's needed.

[sumdumguy]

Black soil warms up a lot faster in the spring. The crop gets a more vigorous start. Wind can also dry it out better than if stubble is standing.

[furrowtickler]

Loose 2 or 3 fields of canola due to all that stubble to frost - makes these machines a lot cheaper. Also wheat stubble can stay overly wet for too long in wet springs - seen that first hand south of here a few years ago - canola struggled and died in those fields - pre worked fields were fine . Again just ask the guys out in east Sask

[Hopperbin]

So what is forecast for next year? We should do opposite.

[freewheat]

I am in east sask and I had some of the highest yielding canola I have heard of in this area. No tilled into very tall standing wheat/canary stubble.

I agree, in theory blackened soil CAN help to an extent. But there are more factors at play too. My theory is that with tall stubble, there is less horizontal surface residue, and the drill makes definite blackened furrows, which warm up faster than in a horizontal residue situation.

Plus the better infiltration from long term zero till, and the no tillers are not any bit later seeding than the recreational tillers.

At least here. My mass tillage neighbor tried one year of no till with a seedmaster. One poor result and they are massacring their soil once again this fall. Talk about letting no till have a chance. I wonder how the master will perform on deeply spiked stubble fields next year?

The theory is IMO not sound. The problem is not cold wet soils because of "unblackened" soil. The soils are cold and wet no matter what you do on the tillage front in this area every single year: The problem IMO is simply too much rain...

Tillage practices IMO do not matter like the theory says.

But that is just my opinion, don't bash me for it. It also depends on your land and landscape. I do farm a bit of cursed potholey land where I would fall till if possible, for ruts, and so I can see where the water is in spring.

Lotsa ways to skin a cat. Bottom line here, is whether you tilled or not, yield was affected by too much rain and flooded areas.