Tim Ogilvie - PEI Conservative

[Choice2U]

So Riders2010, it sounds like you believe a government is only good based on what YOU get out of it as your "beefs" seem to focus on shortfalls in government support payments for farmers. That is even left of the democrat JFK who said in a paraphrase....it's not what the government can do for you but what you can do for government. Personally, I vote on these pillars: Financial responsibility - PC's are bad but they refused to spend the extra dollars asked for recession fighting by Layton, Ignatiaf, et.al, hard on criminals - PC's are at least trying which is more than I got from past governments, less government - less gun registry, less CWB (words but no action) but still more than I'd get by voting any of the alternatives, leadership - Harper is a leader as opposed to consensus building which is BS and he's successfully doing this in a minoity (poles have been positive)...I believe Chretian was a true leader as well just like Harper although I disagreed with where he was taking us.

[riders2010]

The improvements we seek would be there for every farmer. This is going to become more evident as the areas of crop loss continue on and they will from what we are seeing, more will be in the boat we are in without a paddle and then maybe they will understand where we are coming from. Farming is our heart and soul, we are at the end of it because of weather, we've been lied to, and our current governments are saying f'k you who are you in your little area we are the big government, well we are saying f'k you right back. We are in survival mode first and foremost. You would not understand that until you experience it yourself. Hopefully this will cost at least a few seats and them maybe then farmers and rural residents will realize we can do something.

I disagree with the statement Chretien was a leader. He was no leader at all, he created this east west hatred, animosity that I do not know will ever go away, and so that has created the opportunity for anything but a Liberal out west, so what do we get for it? Absolutely f all because our MPs cannot speak up for us, same thing provincially with the rural hatred previously shown by the Calvert NDP, our Skparty MLAs have dissappeared they don't have to do anything and they aren't so rural idiots are just gonna give them a free ride again, why not make them govern, would it not be too much to ask that our local MP or MLA publicly state our concerns and try to help out? They know they don't have to be accountable to us at all because of this ongoing hatred. When have you heard an MP or MLA last address last years disaster for us and what about what is coming?

All I hear is these secret but not secret after election deals to buy off eastern canada for a majority and we are on the edge of loosing our farms? I don't think so!!!!

[riders2010]

I forgot to mention your idea of less government wouldn't that mean that you would support getting rid of the admin overlap between Agristability and Crop insurance, not to mention all that number crunching only to insure that people that need assistance the most don't get it? If you conservatives were truly concerned about responsibility you'd get rid of both programs and make one single program that is actually effective to give those in actual disasters some help?

[Choice2U]

We are dreaming in La La land if we think that one program should be able to cover everything and you are completely right about over administration. How do you design a program that works equally for an expanding farmer, a contracting farmer, a farmer with 4 or 5 bad years in a row, etc? The 5 year average works perfectly fine if one starts the program after 5 good years but fails miserably if the program starts after 5 bad years. Any program falls flat on its face if the assumptions that it is built on (which are necessary) are relevant to some operations but not others. A guaranteed income plan doesn't work as the costs would become so high because it takes out all risk which is a given part of farming. Agri-stability works for those that have money or at least made sure that they paid their portion even if they had to borrow it. Remember the WGSP in the early 80's or late 70's, it was building up to about $1B after numerous good years and then farmer's complained that it was too much of a savings and that they could use the money for other things so the gov't paid it out. Low and behold the rest of the 80's turned bad and surprise, surprise, we're asking for government payouts again. My point is that we will NEVER have adequate farm programs that help everyone so we have to base it on some fundamental principals such as revenue averaging (sound business principal that treats farms on an individual basis), insurance (keeps you afloat only), promote savings for the rainy day that will come, etc. which is basically what we have even thought there are allot of big warts.

[riders2010]

Thanks for confirming my point, that people that had through no fault of their own losses get no help, people that had little need for assistance are going to get bonus cheques. Exact same thing that our government is telling us which f'k you.

And we are telling you no thanks f'k them!!!!

Don't even try to go there and say that a better program can't be made. But like I said on another thread, the conspiracy theory is that they want farmers to go broke, so that their former political hacks forming these investment co, using gov money to take over family farms. Starting to think not so much of a just a theory.

One of many possible examples if they really wanted to help those that need it most, they could have taken an average of margins outside the disaster area and applied it to everyone. Why do those that don't need the money get a bonus cheque?

Another is get rid of agrivation, use that money for premium of crop insurance, do not include zero or low appraisels in years when your area is declared a disaster, etc. etc. it's not that hard. And if someone thinks it is that difficult, that's running this shit show they need to be punted out for incompetency.