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$500m for 7 Ships...

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    $500m for 7 Ships...

    Chaffmeister,

    Something does not add up here...

    "Of the seven Equinox Class ships, two will be owned by the Canadian Wheat Board, one by the Upper Lakes Group -- the parent company of the Port Weller dry docks -- and four by Algoma. When it's all done, the ships will represent an investment of around $500-million."

    Last time I had a calculator out... that is $71M per ship.

    AND the CWB says they get 2 ships for $65M?

    What is the deal?

    Further,

    "The new ships are being built with room for emissions scrubbers and ballast tank cleaners, Wight said, so they can adapt to the new regulations when they come into effect."

    So these ships DO NOT have the equipment to protect the environment installed?


    Background:

    Chinese-made ships are canal's future: Algoma boss
    By GRANT LAFLECHE , STANDARD STAFF
    Updated 19 days ago

    Seven cargo vessels under construction in a Chinese shipyard represent the future of Niagara's shipping industry, says the head of Algoma Central Corp.
    "These ships are being built to replace ships in our fleet that are very old," said Algoma CEO Greg Wight. "They aren't creating new jobs, but they are allowing us to maintain the workforce we have now."
    The ships, which are expected to enter service on the seaway in 2013, are being built at the Nantong Mingde shipyard on the Yangtze delta in China.
    Of the seven Equinox Class ships, two will be owned by the Canadian Wheat Board, one by the Upper Lakes Group -- the parent company of the Port Weller dry docks -- and four by Algoma. When it's all done, the ships will represent an investment of around $500-million.
    Wight said all seven ships will be chartered to Seaway Marine Transport, the company that operates vessels for both Algoma and Upper Lakes.
    They will eventually replace the aging fleet currently on the Great Lakes. Wight said ships in the fleet have crews of about 20 to 25 people, along with relief crews to handle vacations. Those sailors will transfer to the new vessels as they come into service.
    The new ships are only the first of what will become the new fleet, Wight said.
    "We have a large fleet and we expect to stay in the business for a long time to come," Wight said. "These ships will help us do that."
    Wight said the ships are being built in China because it is not possible to build them at home. The Port Weller dry docks are a repair and refit facility and while shipyards on the east and west coasts do work for the Canadian Navy, they don't have berths large enough for the commercial vessels.
    "We'd love to be able to build our ships here, but the cost is too great. Frankly, we'd never build a ship in Canada because of the cost," said Wight.
    He said it is likely the ships would never have been built at all, putting the future of the fleet in jeopardy, had the federal government not eliminated a 25% tariff on imported ships.
    St. Catharines MP Rick Dykstra said it took about four years to eliminate the tariff .
    "It wasn't an easy decision. The question was, if we did that, would Canada's shipping industry make the investment (and build ships overseas)?" he said. "So I am very pleased to see they are."
    He said the political decision was a "high stakes" game that would decide the future of shipping on the lakes.
    "The older ships have to be replaced. They are not economically or technologically or environmentally efficient," he said.
    These kinds of vessels had not been built in Canada in three decades, he said, so the government had to find a way to help the industry develop a solution.
    Wight said the new ships will also help the industry cope with changing environmental regulations.
    New York state, for example, wants to enforce stricter regulations when it comes to the fuel emissions of ships and the dumping of contents of ballast tanks that might contain invasive species that can harm the Great Lakes environment.
    The new ships are being built with room for emissions scrubbers and ballast tank cleaners, Wight said, so they can adapt to the new regulations when they come into effect.
    Algoma looked at 20 shipyards around the world before settling on the Yangtze docks. Wight said the facility employs about 10,000 people.
    "This is large-scale work, complicated work on sophisticated designs," he said.
    glafleche @ stcatharinesstandard.ca

    #2
    This says Algoma bought 11 ships... for $85m... including a brand new ship to be delivered this summer?

    Background:

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    February 25, 2010
    ALGOMA CENTRAL CORPORATION
    (TSX: ALC)
    Announces Agreement to Acquire Upper Lakes Group Interests in Seaway Marine Transport

    Algoma Central Corporation ("Algoma") announced today that it has entered into a definitive agreement to
    acquire from Upper Lakes Group Inc. ("ULG") its partnership interest in Seaway Marine Transport and
    related entities (collectively, "SMT") along with the vessels and assets owned by ULG and its affiliates and
    used by SMT in its Great Lakes - St. Lawrence Waterway dry-bulk freight business.

    Under the terms of the transaction, Algoma will acquire 11 vessels currently owned by ULG, consisting of
    four gearless and seven self-unloading bulk freighters. Algoma will also acquire ULG's interest in two
    gearless and two self-unloading bulk freighters that are now owned jointly by Algoma and ULG as well as
    ULG's interest in a self-unloader currently under construction at Chengxi Shipyard in China, which is
    expected to arrive in Canada in July, 2011 . The purchase price under the transaction is $85,000,000,
    subject to certain adjustments. The transaction is expected to close by the end of March, 2011, subject to
    customary closing conditions including receipt of all required regulatory approvals.

    Comment


      #3
      These 11 ships have two different loading / unloading capabilities. The CWB ships will be gearless (not self unloading), while some of the others being built have a centre hopper, conveyor and can self unload. Obviously more equipment and cost. Think of them as box cars vrs hopper cars or a XL / King Ranch . Thus the difference in price.

      February 8, 2011
      ALC-T
      ALGOMA CENTRAL CORPORATION
      Announces New Ships to Join SMT Fleet
      Algoma Central Corporation announced today that the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) will purchase two new gearless bulk carriers and Upper Lakes Group Inc., will purchase one new gearless bulk carrier. These purchases are in conjunction with the purchase of one gearless bulk freighter and three self-unloading bulk freighters announced by Algoma on December 21, 2010. These ships will be produced by Nantong Mingde Heavy Industries, a shipyard located in the Yangtze Delta area of China. The first ship is expected to enter service in 2013 with the remaining ships to follow through mid-2014.

      Comment


        #4
        Maybe someone at the farmer forums could explain just what farmers have bought.

        Comment


          #5
          My personal thoughts only.... if the fleet isn't replaced there will become a shortage of vessels to haul.

          There are manufacturers out there that are willing to pay more to get their raw ingredients (iron ore) to their factories. An owner of a ship could care less if its a food ingredient (wheat). I am hoping that if the CWB owns 2 ships then there will be 2 grain designated boats on the Great Lakes.

          The railroads certainly cater to the big bulk loads of coal, potash and sulfur or containers..... The best equipment always gets put on those orders.

          Comment


            #6
            As long as they haul CWB product 1st..... then maybe the $1/T they are claiming might be a "good thing"?

            Comment


              #7
              So the cwb owns boats. Leases them to another company who then charges the farmers the same freight rate as before, even though the new boats are more efficient.

              They did this with the railcars and to date the is not a specific line item in the annual report on the revenue of these cars. It gets hidden somewhere.

              If it is such a good idea to have new boats on the lakes, CSL/Paul Martin(former PM) he would probably be doing it.

              And you can't have designated boats for grain there has to be a backhaul to make this whole stupid idea work.

              I have tried to get 2 pro board directors on the phone or by email to explain this purchase and to date no luck.

              Now since they made the decision, and this thing doesn't fly, are those directors on the hook for costs? I ask this because there is alot of confusion as to who owns what. Also hoping government shows some balls and cancels the whole damn thing.

              Oberg should be in front of a parliamentary committee to explain his comments about how little the government minister knows.

              With all the money the cwb has wasted from discretionary trading losses, to buying ships one would think there is money in farming. So why does the government need an farm aid program when the cwb has thrown away over 300 million on frivilous incompetence.

              Comment


                #8
                Bucket,

                "Seaway Marine Transport operates and manages the Canadian-flag gearless and self-unloading bulk freighters owned by Algoma and ULG that serve the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence waterway.
                Algoma is a publicly traded company. ULG, founded 80 years ago in the Great Lakes grain trade, is owned by Toronto entrepreneur Jack Leitch.
                Canada Steamship Lines is the other major Canadian operator on the Great Lakes. It has 11 self-unloaders and eight bulk carriers.
                “The very difficult decision to sell to Algoma was based on a number of critical factors including the large capital requirements required to take the business forward for another quarter century,” Mr. Leitch, ULG’s chairman, said in a statement to colleagues."

                THIS ship thing was....

                Too high risk and Capital intensive for Mr. Leitch. WOW.

                Sold out everything... 11 ships... and a new ship to be delivered in July for a measly $85m.

                AND I bought in instead... of someone who was doing this for 80 years?

                Sounds like we bought some ocean front property in Killam to me!!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Perhaps we should rewrite the song?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Exactly. If it made good business sense, someone in the business would have done it. My guess is laker freight continues to rise by the time those new boats are delivered and then the boats get sold for nickels on the dollar.

                    A more progressive way to look at the whole transportation problem is to seek a North American solution. Maybe trying to make deals to send grain to the mississippi or rail to mexico. Maybe better use of churchill. Anything to get the grain moving faster and not during spring seeding.

                    The warehouses are now being built around the world to store grain so countries can buy at the right time and ensure food supplies for a substantial amount of time.

                    The "just in time" experiment is about over for grain buying and I doubt it will come back for a while now. Political unrest in the middle east will keep those countries buying until stomachs need tums or rolaids to solve the problems.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The ability to read and the ability to do mathematitics are very important.
                      First the news release on the purchase of ships states.
                      "Of the seven Equinox Class ships, two will be owned by the Canadian Wheat Board, one by the Upper Lakes Group -- the parent company of the Port Weller dry docks -- and four by Algoma. When it's all done, the ships will represent an investment of around $500-million."
                      So this is the purchase of new ships that will be delivered in the future The CWB will own two of these ships and pays 65 million (according to the CWB news release).

                      The other news release pertains to the sale of Lakers from Upper Great lakes Group for 85 million. These are mainly lakers that will be phased out.
                      They state it includes ULG's interest (not a total ship) in a self-unloader currently under construction at Chengxi Shipyard in China, which is expected to arrive in Canada in July, 2011"
                      So this sale to Algoma involves a fleet that is being replaced and many smaller inefficient units and ULG's share in one of the modern ships under construction.
                      I hope Tom J goes on another hunger strike at the CWB building to occupy his time rather than further embarrising himself on these forums.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "The ability to read and the ability to do mathematitics are very important."

                        Something the CWB might want to try to do better.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Integrity_Farmer,

                          How your 'statements' change the very facts that clearly point out... the CWB is in the laker shipping business... that those who KNOW what is going on with 80 years of experience... dare not tread...

                          Explains exactly why we should NEVER have had anything to do with becoming ship owners.

                          Nice shot from the bow... MR Integrity_Farmer... anonymous with no explanation whatsoever... about why I and my community are involved in this wild goose chase.

                          Need I remind you.... who is the 'thief' in this particular case... that are telling me I must buy you some boats... as well as pay for the fuel for those boats... without permission... is not acceptable in a free and democratic nation.

                          Let alone clear proof this whole deal is a bad deal for western Canadian grain growers in any event!

                          Comment

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