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"More Price Comparisons"

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    "More Price Comparisons"

    More Price Comparisons


    My last commentary was about how the CWB’s final pool return was much lower than the average “market” price for the year. It created a bit of a stir and discussion so I want to add to it.
    I used the CWB’s daily selling price as a reflection of the market price – it’s the price they quote to domestic millers. Someone suggested that price wasn’t actually the “market” price – I should use a US price, suggesting that the price I was using was just the CWB’s asking price. He said that the CWB could be selling below the “asking price”.
    DTN collects cash prices from over 300 elevators in the Northern Plains if the USA (mostly North Dakota and Montana) each and every day, then publishes the average. Most consider this to be a very good representation of the market. Comparing the pool return to the annual average of the DTN prices and the 08-09 pool return showed the pool return was $37.18/tonne below the average DTN price. Although this is better than the $55.55/tonne below the average Canadian offering prices, the pool return is still substantially below average for the year.
    Now, for the benefit of you doubting-Thomases, this was not a one-year event. Over the seven years ending in 08-09, the final pool return was, on average $32.23/tonne below the DTN average. The worst performance was in 07-08 when the pool was $63.21/tonne below the US average; the best was in 04-05 when it was $11.36/tonne below the US average.
    I asked it before. I’ll ask it again: Are below average prices good enough?
    Pro-CWB director’s candidates explain their support of the CWB - because it’s a “marketing advantage” (Stewart Wells), “the CWB has clout” (Allen Oberg), or “it provides the best opportunity for farmers to maximize their returns” (Kyle Korneychuck). How do these comments fit with these price comparisons?
    I would sincerely like to see the CWB explain this. Remember, the CWB says in its Annual Report that it achieved average premiums in wheat over the competition of about $7/tonne. How can you get premiums when the final pool returns are consistently so poor relative to the North American market? Is there something else in the pool calculation that isn’t apparent?




    John De Pape

    #2
    The comparison would be great if producers in western Canada could sell all their product into the US market. There can't possible be anyone naive enough to think this is possable.

    Comment


      #3
      Stubblejumper:

      I took these right out of De Pape's comments on US price comparisons:

      "I’m not terribly interested in whether wheat will flow south or not in an open market."

      AND

      "I look at prices south of the border – not so much as a possible destination for wheat, but rather as a proxy for what our market values could be."

      AND

      When we see consistently higher prices south of the border, it’s not so much a question of wanting to sell into the US, it’s more a question of being competitive with the US in offshore markets and wanting to find a way to get the same kind of farm gate returns as they do."

      Nobody's talking about selling wheat into the US. Look it up:

      www.cwbmonitor.blogspot.com

      Comment


        #4
        Looks like there's at least one person naive enough to believe that the US is a completely closed market that doesn't export a single bushel and that therefore prices at US elevators couldn't possibly reflect world prices at all.

        Comment


          #5
          What pisses me off about board supporters is they can not even recognize the fact that cwb prices move in a direct correllation to the US market.

          That means as the mgex prices move up so does the cwb prices. Right now its the only price discovery mechanism for wheat.

          The board supporters will not understand that our grain would move to destinations other than the US and still get a premium without paying a bunch of incompetent leeches in winnipeg. The cwb cannot exist without grain companies. And I get along better with my local elevator agent than I do with my local cwb rep who never returns calls. (Weatherald)

          Comment


            #6
            sorry I'm wrong, there are more idiots out there than I thought.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks stubble. If I can market my own flax, peas, lentils and canola, I think I am a big enough boy to handle wheat and durum as I see fit.

              Canola is the same price in the states as in Canada.

              Comment


                #8
                stubble - what makes you so smart and us such idiots?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I know we can not market all of our wheat production into the US market.Some just don't get this.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Where does our flax go???

                    Oh yeah, Europe, through the exact same grain companies that the cwb relies on. Only thing is if they need the product they run the price up. Do they give us the full value - no but they have to make money and pay the carry and accept responsibity as well.

                    The cwb just expropriates it. Current asking price for durum is just shy of ten bucks a bushel - we are going to be lucky to make 6 net at our farm. Pretty big spread for a farmer run organization that returns everything to its farmers.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Of COURSE the CWB is a benefit to Canadian farmers. The proof is in the long lines of jealous Americans lined up at the border trying to ship their wheat north.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Stubble the only one talking about selling all of our wheat to the States is you. You're the one who doesn't get it.

                        An open market does not mean selling wheat just to the States. It means selling it to everyone in the world just like they do in the States. There's a big difference between the two.

                        That's why we use American elevator prices. Because they sell their wheat to everyone in the world not just themselves.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          bucket.......

                          The CWB is ASKING $10, your are netting $6 (you say) We are giving the rail companies, elevators, inspectors etc money to net us the $6.00 I have always wondered, who pays the ocean freight?

                          Is that $10/bushel FOB Vancouver, or FOB some port city in Europe or what?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            oh boy this ones gonna be fun ......

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Try to open your mind and do some research. The cwb publishes their asking prices almost everyday.


                              http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/2/0/147236802.html

                              Its about $1.60 deduction from vancouver or thunder bay to mid point sask. So we should be netting $8.50 everyday.

                              Peas and flax are priced net to the farmer and I don't care what it costs them to get it across the prairies, ocean or for that matter across the street.

                              Board supporters don't know the asking prices of the cwb and then call me an idiot. Proud to be one. But it takes a bigger one to notice.

                              Comment

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