farm subsidies

[lesm]

Had a interesting discussion this A.M. with my city friends regarding farm subsidies, ie crop insurance, agri-stability, agri- invest. Most argued that since all other private businesses work on a do or die basis, why are farmers considered a sacred cow? I somewhat agree because we all have choices and no one is forcing us to farm. I would probably forgo some of these programs if I could get that CWB albatross of my back. Any thoughts?

[liberty]

Farm subsidies just cost taxpayers money. They don't confer an advantage to any particular farmer.

The reason is that farmers compete against each other, not so much in the field of selling their product, but terms of purchasing inputs, and in terms of skills and experience. Subsidies don't turn an incompetent farmer into a smart one.

Essentially, all subsidies do is drive up the cost of inputs like land. It's like increasing the starting chip stack in a poker tournament. It may make the game last a bit longer, but it would be a mistake for a player to think that the larger stack gives him some sort of an advantage over the other players.

[bucket]

IF i could do my own marketing without the government controlled cwb losing money on my behalf, I would gladly tell the government to **** off. But until that happens I guess the government must continue to subsidize us.

My 08 durum crop won't be paid for until december 10 which is just three months short of three years from the time it went in the ground. If the government wants to control that, then I have no problem waiting for their shitty subsidies.

And BTW what did your friends think of the handouts to the auto sector?

[Burbert]

Your city friends are ignorant about farm issues, ie subsidies and private sector bailouts and subsidies as well. Let me think about it, for a fraction of a second, tnings that come to mind are GM, Chrysler, Ford, Kanadian magazine publishing, the Amerikin economy, farm subsidies etc, etc. To name a few. Yeah a level playing field for farmers, grand idea. So long as the price of Shreddies or buns doesn't increase a penny. Urbanites would be thrilled indeed. City people know nothing about farms, half of us farmers know nothing about farms................

[ajl]

When the government wants to play in the space you have to participate because land and input values all reflect the revenue that is assumed to come from government. The other factor is if they get rid of these programs what would the bureaucrats do? I would be happy to be rid of CWB, Agristability et al, but it has to be all of them. Another thing It would be nice if the Pest Management Regulatory agency was not a tool of the established chem companies and would make it easier to register generics so our chemical costs would be the same as in the US. As far as other business swimming on there own: what was the stimulus for? Right now there is nothing going on that you can't trace back to the government.

[ivbinconned]

Bucket, please hold the profanity.

In 1930 there were over 3000 people living in our RM. today its under 300. If farmers were so subsidized I doubt so many would have left the field.

The city folks have it backwards which tells us how well our story gets told. The ag sector rather subsidises the urban in ways few know...including farmers.

The taxes applied to the end product of a bushel of malt barley garners the government (the people) million$$. The farmer gets a very very small portion of that. The CWB has protected Canadian distillers from the harsh reality of the world market because it could always steel from producers and help their friends in the malt industry.


For decades Sask producers have payed, per family, 4 times as much school tax as our city families. helping the city folks with better buildings and programs!!

There are many other examples (Bu of wheat produces so many loaves etc) that one does not know where to start.

[bucket]

Sorry about that one. I wasn't talking to anyone in particular just the government. Can offend anyone there because they don't read this stuff and they certainly don't listen. If a tree falls in the forest does anyone hear?

Back to the subsidy stuff, you are right the government makes more on taxes than our hard work. And the worst part of it is they won't change it. If city folks had to dedicate more of their income to food they might start to understand. But governments like the cheap food policy. It allows city folks to buy expensive houses they can't afford so the government buys their vote by subsidizing banks so they can afford it.

If the consumers would start to question the price of bread in relation to the price of wheat it might start a better dialogue.

[sagewood]

Have had this very discussion with the urbanites I know and I tell them that one thing I do know is that they can live without a lot of things, but food is not one of them and unless and until the government stops their 'cheap food policy' that was started during WWII, then they can continue to pay a 'subsidy' to keep me in business because if they do not, then they will be paying every cent they earn to a foreign country to import food that is of lesser quality than the Canadian owned and raised food. I have said it before and I say it again, what this country needs is a good famine to last long enough for them to remember how an empty stomach feels and remember how much they had to pay for a piece of moldy bread and cheese to feed the family. The answer to a lot of trends and questions about the 'agriculture problem' is easy--at least in my mind--we can draw young people back to the farm--we can make agriculture on all levels pay--we will lessen our reliance on imported food--all of this accomplished by allowing farmers to be paid what they are worth when they are alive and actually producing food--not the old "live poor and die rich" system that happens currently. I could go on, but let me just say--this country will live to regret its lack of real support to its farmers/ranchers--we are dropping like flies and there is no one to pick up after us. The so-called support programs of the day and the reworked programs that they keep trumpeting are useless to most operations--never enough to pay all the bills--the only people who get real value from the ag. programs are the government and bureaucrats of the day....

[ivbinconned]

Just some thoughts. Why can't some farm groups take up space on city bill boards stating some of the above...like...

"Farm families pay 4 times as much school taxes as us city folk! Is this fair?"

Or..."A farmers yearly income off a quarter of land = $30,000.00...the governments take on end product taxes = $1,000,000.00...thats right one million. Is this fair??

[Burbert]

Sagewood. Well said, all the points that you made were good and valid. The only concept missing was, GREED, which is the motivating factor that runs the market and our world for that matter. Our nort american gov'ts will never let a famine occur here at home, cause they'd never, ever, ever git re-elected if'n they did. The balancing act that they use, is to give farmers just enough profit, to keep them farming and hoping that one day they'll discover a silver bullet and make a killing on the farm and get rich. It'll never happen though, hence the phrase that has been coined "dumb farmers".