A question for Kathy and others

[grassfarmer]

I have read often enough Kathy's views on Government control and diseases outbreaks etc so I would like to pose a hypothetical situation to you all and see how you feel about it.
Roll back the years to 2001 and the UK outbreak of foot and mouth disease. The first cases are up and running before anyone is on the ball - ensuing widespread distribution of early cases through the country. The country there is very different to Western Canada - smaller scale, every field literally stocked with animals more or less wall to wall. The Government quickly gets behind with culling cases and eventually the army is called in. They adopt a preemptive cull which is to say every time there is a farm with cases they cull all the farms within a mile or so to try and stop the spread. Given the scale of the operation and the panic the Government makes many mistakes - friends of mine had their stock culled because a Government worker switched his long. and lat. coordinates around and finished up on the wrong place! Many, many producers lose generations of work to the cull - in truth probably 10 million head were slaughtered in total cattle, sheep and pigs.
What should have been the policy of the Government? do what they did better? sit around and discuss whether F M actually needed eradicated anyway given that it is not fatal and causes no ill effects to the meat that would render it inedible? Should they have vaccinated for it at the first sign of outbreak? (I believe that would be their choice if it were to happen again)
Just to complicate matters I should point out that as soon as your country gets hit by F M your exports stop and they remain stopped until 6 months after your last case was reported. Also vaccinated stock and meat off them are not exportable to most countries. Straight away it is almost inevitable that the country will need a welfare cull as all movements are stopped and cows are caught out on summer pasture etc when winter hits. What I'm getting at is this is a tough, tough situation and while it's easy to critisise government for putting in place plans that fascilitate compulsory slaughter and for not always agreeing with some producers holistic ways to treat their own animals there needs to be a policy in place for the country and ready to roll at any minute.
So what are everyones solutions to a potential problem like this - how would you handle it?

[smcgrath76]

That is a great scenario GF. I think
that CFIA in the case of Canada needs to
be more on top of monitoring and should
probably be looking at setting up a
better surveillance network through the
vet clinics using modern technology.
This is a place where I think national
ID plays a role and some degree of
traceability.
I also think that governments should
carry basic insurance so that they can
pay out fair market value (pre-disaster)
for those animals they need to destroy.
I think farmers/ranchers need to be
forthright in declaring an issue.
In Canada we are currently dependent on
exports, right wrong or indifferent, so
we do need to focus on customer needs.
We would also require something more
than Agristability.
There also needs to be CONSISTENCY in
message, CFIA actions, handling of
cases, etc. That is the only way to
slow down mass confusion.
There is lots to think on in your
painted scenario.

[coppertop]

grassfarmer excellent post. We hear so
much talk about the health services
across the country being prepared for a
pandemic but we do not hear much in the
way of any planning taking place
regarding outbreaks of anything in the
livestock sector. I personally think
that a lot of cattle were destroyed
needlessly when BSE hit, of course some
people got out of the business and
received a nice fat payout at the same
time.

[kato]

Personally, I think the odds of it getting into the U.S. are higher than here. If it happened here, I feel better knowing that at least we can locate and track animals, especially compared to the U.S. If it hit there first, now that would be a disaster! I think we'd be able to button things down a lot quicker here than to the south.

But then again, if it hit the U.S. first, they'd probably go out and make the whole world change the rules about FMD, and it wouldn't be an issue any more. How's that for cynical?? Gee, I wonder where I got that attitude? ;-)

[per]

I don't think you've heard me being to critical of the gov's traceability attempts and this is why. If the BSE thing is any indication I would want to be either the epicentre or on the other side of the country.

[grassfarmer]

Just a few comments on the points raised by other posters.
First in my mind this is why we need a tracking system - not some crap system that tells where a calf is born but one that tells where it has been, when and who it was co-mingled with particularly the auctions. Absolutely critical in this situation and relatively easy to do if they would just use the damn EIDs that we are already paying for.
I don't care how Government fund it but there would have to be good compensation paid on culls - there has to be to get people in the mood to report cases rather than conceal them.
I'm not sure of the state of emergency planning for F M but I believe there is a zoning system in place that at least splits the country at the Man/Ont border so that both halves needn't be shut down. Beyond that I don't know how prepared they are.
I don't think it would hit the US worse than us on account of our existing tracking system because I don't think we have a tracking system anything like up to the job. Here is why.
Scenario 2 - F M case reported in feedlot alley in a calf bought through Ponoka auction the week before. Read the tag and find the birth farm of the calf - good start - you now need to track every other animal that went through Ponoka auction that week plus every other animal that was hauled afterwards in all the trucks hauling in and out of Ponoka that week. These have all to be found and quarantined. Beep Beep game over - not a hope in H@@@$ of doing this accurately in a timely manner.

On top of this I should throw in the fact that a F M outbreak will not be just a farm story - this will be a national and international mass media story. They will broadcast footage of the mass burning pires in the UK and build a media frenzy. This will further complicate the politicians role because it puts enormous pressure on them to be seen to be doing the "right thing" even if they don't know what that is.
I really hope this doesn't happen to us - but it could so easily and I think we should be at least half way set up to deal with it.

[burnt]

per - well trust me, it wasn't (isn't?) that great on the other side of the country either!

[per]

I hear you burnt.

[Kathy]

Been busy, sold yearlings today in Brooks.....

Here's my initial reaction, late in the night, as it may be...

A meeting in town the other night, confirmed that with the new Federal traceability program coming down the pike... Canada WILL BE SPLIT UP into two animal health regions (Manitoba West) and Ontario east.

Secondly, I can't control other peoples' cattle, but I can control my own. So first thing I'd do (in the above scenario) is try to isolate my cattle form anyone elses. Whatever that takes, ie: locking them up in the corrals and feeding... This form of "self-quarantine" would allow for time to pass to show if my animals became sick or not... if it were an infectious disease like FM, it would show up in a couple weeks if they were exposed.

The Alberta government and ALMA will track animal IDs and link them to your premise ID number. Then they will shut down associated/linked premises (how will they isolate the cattle on each premise I do not know)..... But where did the first animal get FM from? The later British cases were from the vaccine laboratory nearby, oops.

The USA government is planning to bring active FM virus to a new Biolab to be built in Manhattan, Kansas (virtually the center of the USA) from Plumb Island - off the New York coastline (where they presently have it isolated)..... It's isn't a matter of if, but when will the USA has a FM outbreak.

Government doesn't trust the rancher to self-quarantine his stock. Traceability is just cosmetic for the public to buy and calm fears... it will likely have little effect on the spread of the disease.

Premise ID will ALLOW farms "NOT" RFID linked to the sick animals to continue to move their cattle - yet that is no guarantee either, that they have not been exposed... because the source of infection must be identified first to do that.

The new AB animal health laws do not require sick animals - they only require the suspected presence of a disease causing "AGENT"....which also includes "toxins" other than bacteria and viruses..... Toxins that could have come in the wind and rain from half way around the world.

I am wondering if the new CPIP and a proposed insurance program for the cow/calf guy, are not the government's attempts to provide "coverage" for lock-downs (control, surveillance) regions, as per the new Animal Health laws..... except with CPIP you have to be able to sell your stock within a 4 week window... what if you can't do that?

Quarantined zones, I would think, would actually require sick animals? maybe not....the Ponoka pigs were "infected", then they weren't infected, the story changed daily.... eventually the government stepped in and paid they guy didn't they?....

Tracing animals and closing premises didn't help the spread of FM in Britian did it? They had all this in place... and the disease popped up (the first time) all over the place (source never actually identified)...

We are in an enviable position in Canada with our wide open spaces and abundant sunlight. The best way to prevent a disease crisis is to NOT concentrate our animals in one geographic area (like feedlot alley). Spread things out, keep a wide variety of genetics and provide our stock with healthy food, water and minerals/vit.

But that won't be governments' answer unless we lead the way. They will follow the multinationals and introduce trans-genetically modified pigs, prion-deficient cattle, and continue to lay all our futures on the "scientific" answers. These answers will include mandatory vaccinations, drug treatment protocols and maybe even the end of "Natural breeding" and a move to "embryo transplants" as the only way to produce "safe" livestock.

At this point, I will hand over my land to the multinationals... and they can hire whomever they want to raise whatever they want on this land (if anything).... If cattle production becomes a "franchise" industry, what point is there in doing it?

At this point, I like to point out that in the cases of H5N1 in the Turkeys in BC....a quick search of water quality in the area - showed that "agriculture wells" were heavily contaminated with toxic metals, like aluminum, barium, etc... while the non-agricultural water wells in the local forested areas were not loaded with these metals.... What is the CFIA's doing about the water quality? Did they even look at it at these turkey barns?

[Kathy]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-05/mbl-sli052009.php

Check this news article out. A researcher from Dartmouth University had recently exposed mice to H1N1 (swine flu) and arsenic in water (at 100 parts per billion). These mice were more susceptible to the virus.

Article has some very interesting comments on how the intial immune response was "feeble", but then after a few days the immune response was too much and too late".... The researchers noted that when H1N1 was found in Mexico, that this area of Mexico is well known to have high levels of arsenic in their water.....

A new prion paper, by Dr. A. Aguzzi demonstrates that transgenetic mice that are repeatedly immunized with bovine serum albumin and ALUM, are more susceptible to int****ritoneal exposure of scrapie (brain homogenate). Perhaps the aluminum is nucleating these proteins (in the lysosomes), and aiding in the creation of the problem.. . Either way, the activation of the immune cells visa "immunization" (their words)... I prefer innoculation .... increased susceptibility to disease/scrapie (i.p)

"Repetitive Immunization enhances mouse susceptibility to peripheral prion infection" (or something along this line.