Democracy/free press

[grassfarmer]

To correct a few of the most obvious lies in this edition.
The "henchman" referred to was disputing more than two words and by all accounts it was Rutledge who was reluctant to debate - indeed I believe he tried to deny he was a Nilsson auction market operator but was let down by his secretary who had already confirmed he was. Notice he talks about the enquiry regarding his "auctioneering career" and omits to mention that the point of interest was whether he was a Nilsson employee.
Rutledge then goes on to blame SRM regulations as being the root of all problems - does that sound like a ranchers opinion or that of an employee of the countries biggest packing plant? Read the NFU analysis - SRM costs are a false cause of the current crisis.

"Am I a radical or a fortune teller for predicting that the slaughter capacity in Canada will continue to dwindle and/or consolidate until there is less capacity than pre-BSE levels?" No not a fortune teller - merely working for Nilssons to make sure that corporate concentration continues because they know that every time there are less buyers and less competition they can lower the price of fat cattle paid to producers.

"Teaming up with R CALF doesn't impress me much." "None of the cattle organizations will challenge the NFU/R-CALF" The blatant lies continue that there is any connection between R-CALF and the NFU - there isn't, never was and never will be - this is an out and out lie.

It's interesting that farmers_son is so happy to tie his ABP flag firmly to the Nilsson ship - it merely confirms what many of us have suspected over the years ABP are to all intents in bed with the packers working against producer interests. So what price do you get when you sell cows f_s? do you get the "packer backer bonus" or do you get discounted like I do because I dare to speak out against them?

[kato]

All I have to say about this is that we went to one of the informational meetings put on by the NFU.

1. No one asked us to join.
2. No one asked for money.
3. No one called anyone a skunk or placed labels on anyone.
4. All of the information was given in a positive manner, without resorting to name calling or inuendo.
5. The information was laid out for the audience, and the floor opened to discussion, with no one being judged or put down if they did not agree with the report. All opinions were listened to in a civilized and polite manner.
6. There was no sign of any left wing wackos anywhere to be seen. Maybe they were hiding outside in the bushes?

That's all I have to say about that. For today, anyway. ;-)

[kato]

And today I have a bit more to say. ;-)

I also do take offence to that one comment that Mr. R. has more to lose than any member of the NFU, or any other smaller producer. I have noticed over the years that those who have the biggest operations and the most invested also have the most safeguards against losing things like their homes and personal property if things go bad. What is more of a loss? Some money? Or your home and all your possessions?

And why, because someone is not as wealthy as another, does their opinion carry less weight? It's the smaller, and poorer producers with the least to lose in Mr. R.'s opinion who are producing those feeders that the players higher up in the chain depend on. They are the ones the whole system depends on to keep the supply of calves there. And they are becoming disillusioned with being held in such low regard. It's a basic law of business that if your suppliers go out of business, so do you.

We don't belong to the NFU, and we do pay our checkoff money to the mainstream groups, but that doesn't mean we aren't willing to listen to any new idea that comes along, no matter where it comes from.

This whole trend lately toward closed minds, labels, and judgmental attitudes is wearing pretty thin with me. It seems that when one person or group has an idea that another doesn't like, rather than come up with a counter proposal, they just start name calling, and labelling the other as being not worth listening to.

Why? In everyday life, if your neighbour comes up with an idea that you don't like, that doesn't mean you start calling him a nut case and refuse to ever speak to him again. You don't tell all the other neighbours to do the same do you? No. You look past that one idea and move on. His next idea just might be a terrific one. And your neighbour doesn't go around telling everyone that you are never going to accept a new idea for the rest of your life and that you cannot be reasoned with.

This is what is going on right now, and quite frankly I think we need to get past it. There are a lot of problems in our industry right now, and there is no black and white anywhere in the mix. We need to approach our difficulties from whatever angle works, no matter who comes up with the idea of how to do it.

If everyone in the world closed their minds to any new suggestions we'd still be living in caves.

That's it for today. Gotta go water the garden...

[grassfarmer]

Thank you for your input Kato, it's good to hear others views especially from someone outside Alberta.

The point you make about Roy claiming to have more to lose than smaller producers is valid but remember also that Roy is not who he claims to be. If producers returns continue to be severely adversely affected by corporate concentration and captive supply practises as they are at the moment I don't think Roy will be out in the street. Remember he is a Nilsson Bros. auction mart manager so will be sitting pretty while real beef producers large and small go to the wall. If half the cows in Canada were to disappear overnight the two packers would still be sitting pretty - with an
oligopsony limited to two players you really can't lose.

I take on board your comments about producers/organizations being more likely to throw insults at those with opposing views than work with them.

[farmers_son]

Grassfarmer: I note your remark "I take on board your comments about producers/organizations being more likely to throw insults at those with opposing views than work with them."

I also noted your earlier comment "If you believe that you are a bigger fool than I thought farmers_son." Enough said about that.

I agree with Katos comments. I usually do. I believe my comments were along the same lines.

I will be taking a break from Agriville for a while. I enjoyed the opportunity to discuss cattle issues with interesting people but it is time to move on.

As an industry we are facing the most challenging times I have ever been a part of. We will pull through and I continue to see a bright future for cattle. However in the next short while it seems inevitable that our industry is going to fragment and tear apart as it seeks the lowest common denominator instead of the high road.

Exactly what we do not need as the greatest challenge facing primary producers continues to be how to come together in order to improve their competitiveness.

Take care one and all.

[grassfarmer]

Citing my remarks re the throwing insults is rather sanctimonious given that you and your ABP buddies do it all the time. In this thread alone you have claimed that the NFUs only interest in the livestock industry is the levy money and that their cattle crisis document was crap. I was recognising that Kato had a valid point about organisations and throwing insults and accepting that I am guilty of that too. I guess it doesn't apply to you high and mighty ABP types.

[coppertop]

I agree with Kato. The ability to disagree
respectfully vs name calling and ridicule
is a sign of leadership. It would go a long
way to forging alliances that are necessary
if our industry is to survive the
challenges we all face if all
orgnanizations who are supposed to be
working in the best interest of producers,
would actually work together vs being
polarized.

[kato]

We can be pretty much assured that the government is not going to go out of it's way to help out a bunch of people who can't even agree on what their problems are, let alone how to solve them.

If all the organizations that say they represent cattle producers would just get past their prejudices and come up with some sort of plan, I would bet it would get attention.

It's time for some minds to open up to other points of view, and for the pi*&^ing contests to end for the sake of all of us.

Otherwise we're on our own.

[grassfarmer]

Thinking a bit more on the issue you ladies have raised has caused me to question your idea. I agree working together is a good thing but there must always be room for freedom of expression and differing ideas. As an example some producer groups currently support captive supply practices by the packers while others are determined to end this practice. What common ground/approach can they reach? They would seem to be fundamentally opposed in their beliefs and I don't think that is wrong. In many of these issues there is no right or wrong, just differing opinions and that is as it should be in a democracy.
As far as it stifling our influence with politicians because we don't all share the same ideas I don't think this is a situation unique to the beef sector or to agriculture. Plenty other industries/ groups lobby the government with different viewpoints within their own sectors.
Turning the issue around you could argue that politicians should all start agreeing, all be members of the one party then the electorate would listen to them, believe them and vote for them with a 100% majority.
I agreed with the original point re trading insults needlessly but to extend it to saying we will never get anywhere until we all decide on the one outcome and agree on a common approach is probably wrong thinking as well as something that obviously won't happen.

[smcgrath76]

I think it is important that politicians
listen to more than one side and that
they can publicly discuss and explain
their decisions (even if they come down
on one side vs. the other). I have very
little regard for voting the party line
based on someone else's thought process
and advice (particularly bureaucratic
advice).
There are some issues that are probably
not possible to tackle with one voice as
producers, however there are others that
certainly are that way. Right now I
think a lot of farm organizations are
"voting the party line" on some issues
just because their position has to be
the opposite of someone else's or they
are trying to garner favours.

[Sawbones]

Border Beef is hosting a 2 day seminar where 12 different organizations will give their views on the industry as well as their vision of the future. There will also be an opportunity for opinion from the floor. I would love to hear from Grassfarmer and Farmer's Son or anyone else on this blog. The date is July 22-23 at the Lloydminster Exhibition grounds. For more information contact Gary Etherington at 780-847-2445

[kato]

That's a good idea! It's exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen. There should be more meetings just like it. That's the only way answers will be found.

If anyone attends, please post what you find out so the rest of us out of the province types can know what happened.

[grassfarmer]

Sawbones, it is an innovative event that Border Beef are organizing. I'm pleased that the organizers cast the net wide and included speakers from as many organizations as they did. I plan to attend on the first day but can't attend both days. What to I have to do to attend? is there a sign up deadline?