cow/calf income.

[cowman]

Kpb wrote below that 300 cows would be considered a viable stand alone cow/calf operation? Is that true?
It sure would if you had all the cows, land, and machinery paid for!
Cam Ostercamp in his "famous" Behind the veil of science, stated one time we cleared $200/cow after expenses...now that was if we were buying feed and grass. He said in the last few years before BSE that had slipped to $50/cow. Personally I think he had it pretty much right?
Well $50/cow on 300 hundred cows is $15K! Is that a viable operation? If you consider 40 hours a week for 52 weeks or 2,080 hours...what are you making? $7.21/hour? Maybe Macdonalds looks pretty good after all?
How many of us are counting on living off our equity? In other words, we make our money owning the land...not the cows? Consider if you rented out the grass, hay, silage land...would you practically get the same income as you do raising cows, especially if you had the cow/equipment money in a good mutual fund! Are you working for free?

[coppertop]

A family farm operation running 300 cows will be stretched to the limit as far as manpower goes, particularly if there are kids that aren't old enough to help with the farming, caring for livestock etc., or the other end of the spectrum when the kids are off to college or have left home.

[cswilson]

All Depends on how you run them.

[WoolyBear]

Theres too many of us out here that likely spend too much time trying to save a dying calf. Manpower would get pretty cranky around here is we tried to run 300 cows without atleast some IRON to help out.

[coppertop]

And where you are located. If you can swath graze, or pasture graze long into the fall, and if you don't winter calve it can make a large difference.

[grassfarmer]

Agreed cswilson, I never knew running cows could be so little work! We're only half way to the 300 cows so far but it's like a part time job compared to what I was used to in Scotland. We could double cow numbers and most of the year it wouldn't cost us a lot more time. How much longer does it take to let 80 cows through a fence than 40? Fair enough if you are mechanically feeding in winter it will take longer but if that's only for 100 days it's no big hassle, maybe another hour a day. Calving needn't take longer either as you are in the field checking anyway. We have 5 cows left to calve - haven't assisted one cow to calve or one calf to suckle this year, had 2% calf mortality, it's amazing how easy life becomes if you learn to work with nature. Most of the long hours folk claim to put into caring for cows is in fact fighting nature.

[kpb]

I also agree--I have, in the past, run 420 cows, along with backgrounding their calves. Just my wife and I and five kids to feed and get out the door every day to school. The kids rarely needed to help, generally just at branding and sorting.

As grassfarmer has said, if you're feeding anyways, it just adds an hour or two. I think it used to take me about three hours to feed (it was seven or eight years ago). I'm sure if I'd been smart enough at the time to swath graze or graze held-back pasture (which I was not) it would have been less time.

We rarely pulled a calf--maybe three or four a year because we used the right bulls on the right cows. The cows even more rarely had any problems. Always calved in April and May and fed later in the day so we haven't gotten up in the night to check the cows in a long time.

Could easily run 500 cows I think if I wanted to.

kpb

[nicolaas]

If you are a full time rancher, one person should be able to handle 600 head calving in the spring if things go right and there are a few guys in our area doing that (Though bad weather during calving such as -10 and wet snow like we had about 5 years ago in early may and you may have a wreck) Of course you would need help to sort/give shots. My father and I calved out 300 head in May and put in 3000 acres of crop. To be honest, if we spent 2 man hours a day on the cows, it would be a stretch. We did not do any checks, just tagged and brought out the new borns to a different pasture every 3 days. Pulled one backwards calf, had one stillborn, and one 1 month old calf recently died of something. Just started the second cycle yesturday, and have just gotten 82% coomplete. Once they are done calving, I spend maybe 1/2 hour checking water and putting out mineral per day. Heck, If things go well, one person should look after 1000 head just so he has a partially filled day! About winter feeding, yardage costs go WAY down the more cows you feed, and your tied down anyways, so may as well spend 3 -4 hours feeding lots of cows rather that 2 hours feeding that couple hundred head.

[mb_rancher]

Cowman,


Your biggest whiner on here!!! Thats all you ever do!! If you feel you arent making any money out of your cows then get rid of them!! Plain and simple.

[WoolyBear]

The Americans have it all figured out. It looks like we all need to get off our sorry butts and have more cows!

1,864 Acres Needed In A Corn/Soybean Rotation?
Large farm sizes have become an economic reality, according to Gary Hachfeld, an educator in agriculture business management with the University of Minnesota (U of M) Extension Service. Hachfeld, based out of the Extension Regional Center in Mankato, MN, has produced a report to help quantify and explain the phenomenon.

The numbers presented in the report are real numbers from hundreds of real families throughout the southern one-third of Minnesota. The families are members of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities System (MnSCU) Adult Farm Business Management Program and the University of Minnesota Extension Service Southeast and Southwest Adult Farm Business Management Programs.

Hachfeld worked from a base assumption that $64,046 was needed for an average household, with an average family size of 3.4 persons, to meet living expenses. Expenses included food, medical care, charitable donations, supplies, furnishings, clothing, educational costs, recreation expenses, gifts, utilities, child care, house rent and house upkeep.

For the 374 MnSCU members with a typical 50/50 corn-soybean rotation, a total of 1,864 acres -- 932 acres of corn and 932 acres of soybeans -- was required to meet family expenses. The figure, based on the same assumptions, was a total of 1,334 acres for the 67 families from the Extension Southwestern Association, and 1,564 acres for the 10 families in Extension's Southeastern Association.

For other farm enterprises (MnSCU members), figures needed were 334 acres of alfalfa; 4,417 head of farrow-to-finish hogs; 5,924 head of weaning-to-finish hogs; 6,502 head of finish feeder pigs; 16,338 head of contract finish hogs; 679 head of beef finish calves; 815 head of beef cow-calf cows and 121 dairy cows.

The numbers are an average of all farm records for the years 2001-2005. A more detailed version of Hachfeld's report is available on the University's Center for Farm Financial Management Web site at: www.cffm.umn.edu/Pubs/earnlvgfarm.pdf

Source: Univeristy of Minnesota

[coppertop]

I, for one, don't consider cowman's comments as whining. He stated facts as he sees them, provided some numbers to support his facts.

Many others have done so on this site, and provided interesting information that provides food for thought.

Input costs vary from one operation to another, overhead costs, property taxes etc., one operation may be able to survive on income from 200 cow, depending on the debt load, lifestyle etc., one size sure won't fit all.