4-H Sales

[coppertop]

How have the 4-H sales been going around the country ? Our Achievement Day is Monday, so it will be interesting to see what the prices are.

Unfortunately our Interclub has show has turned into a professional show, and it is discouraging the kids that don't have any prior showmanship expertise etc. One of the families moved up here from the US, and are really pushing the show ring politics, which is causing some kids to quit 4-H after one year.

WE used to have the steer class, heifer class and three year old and calf class, now they have both commercial and purebred female classes and breeders herd, which is foolish because very few of the younger members have enough critters to participate in a breeders herd. Some sponsors have been supporting the show for 30 years, and were 'dropped' by Interclub in favor of some out of the area purebred breeders that are buddies of the leadership !!! Certainly not the way I like to see the organization go.In the past couple of years we had the judge buy the grand champion and show it in Calgary at the steer show.....which really soured many supporters.

[cowman]

I never let any of my kids join 4H. I guess I didn't want to ruin their innocence! I decided that teaching them to lie and cheat wasn't very healthy for a young mind...lots of time for that when they grew up! Also didn't want them to have a totally unreal view of what raising cattle is all about!

[coppertop]

All that aside cowman, it does help young people in many ways that have nothing to do with the showring or dollars and cents. They learn public speaking, working as a team, helping their community etc. They have the opportunity to compete for trips across Canada and beyond. This competition is not based on how well they do with their steer or other project, but on many other factors.

4-H clubs run right are an excellent way for kids to be involved in something that helps turn them into good citizens, and Lord knows they could be involved in a lot worse !

[cowman]

Yeah coppertop, I know. My old man had me and the sisters in 4H all our young lives and I got a lot out of it and had a lot of fun.
I sure didn't like it when the kid whose old man owned the big feedlot got more for his cruddy calf than the rest of us, but was pretty happy when my Dads purebred buddy was buying mine! Too bad for the kid whose old man never had any pull!
Even way back then it wasn't very fair? My sisters and I had an advantage as first of all my Dad was using 4H to promote his bull business and second he knew how to present a calf? We sometimes had calves that should have definitely NOT been cut!
Was my Dad, like evil? No he wasn't...he was simply taking care of business! I guess we all benifitted...but it always left sort of a sour taste in my mouth! In fact that whole purebred BS sort of left a sour taste in my mouth! But I guess in the big picture it taught me a lot about business! One hand washes the other and being "best" doesn't necessarily mean you are THE winner?

[coppertop]

To add to that cowman, it also teaches kids the cost of production of beef and if they lose money on paper they get some idea of what their parents are facing trying to make a living in the cow business.

The biggestproblem is when parents try and get involved on showday, trying to groom their kids calf and cracking orders at the people running the show, which in many cases are senior club members.

The local interclub will disqualify a member from showmanship and grooming if anyone other than another 4-H member touches their calf on show day. There are always senior members on hand,( and believe me, some of them are bigger than most of the parents) to help the younger members if they have trouble leading their calf etc. and also help them with grooming the calf for the ring.

[coppertop]

Should add that one of the neighbours made a showstick for their kids by putting a bent nail in a broom handle. 20 years ago both their kids won many showmanship trophies with the old broom handle but when the grand kids started 4-H they let grandad know they had absolutely NO INTENTION of showing up with that darn poor excuse for a showstick !!!!!Poor old granpa was fairly insulted .

[cowman]

coppertop: My Dad wasn't the type to be pushy on show day! We had our regular little "mock show days" at home! He knew how the game was played! He wasn't a dumbie.
Our calves were like the best trained calves in four counties! Had the best hair and were clipped to perfection! You presented them well...or sure heard about it later!
My Dad was a good person. He was doing it how he best percieved it? He was not a happy camper when I told him the boy wasn't going to be in 4H...but deep down I think he understood that I knew it was BS and didn't want my kids to buy into that BS?
Now of course in latter years I had to "educate" the boy? In the real world... where literally life is a bunch of that very BS! You sell the sizzle...not the steak? That is business?

[coppertop]

I look forward to the 4-H show every year. My family and I sponsor scholarships for members of our local club, and even though it's not a large amount of money its nice to support good kids that are heading in the right direction with their lives.

It seems that the last few years I have been so busy that the Achievement Day is the one time in the year I can visit with my 4-H friends and really enjoy watching the young folks. Many of the families aren't in the purebred business and have no concept of showring politics, so it is sad when it takes over the day. Last year we had a special anniversary of the Interclub and one of the kids had made a special sign to commemmorate it. The leader from 'hell' advised that there was NO ROOM around the ring to display the sign because it took away from the view of the calves !!!!!!! I think that a few of the kids and parents must have grown some BA--s and put her in her place because the sign was there in full view and the local paper had a picture of it in conjunction with the coverage of the day the following week.

[cowman]

Yea, and I know coppertop it is basically a good thing. Lord knows there isn't a lot out there for farm kids? And like you said it teaches them a lot more than just feeding a calf!
Sometimes I am just like this "rebel without a cause" sort of thing? Hell I even bought the neighbors kids calf last June...and me with 60 yearlings sitting in the damned pasture!....and no I didn't buy the calf because it was going to make me any money...I just liked the kid!

[coppertop]

In the club I used to lead there is a 16 year old kid from the most dysfunctional family on earth. He and his brother were born when their mother was 15 and 17. No dad in the picture. Mom married a man in his 50's when she was 19 and had another child. Then, she decided that kids tied her down and went off to ENJOY life leaving the kids with the step dad. The 16 year old got an after school job on the feedlot down the road, the owners two kids have been in 4-H since they were old enough to start. The feedlot owner gave the kid a steer calf, let him keep it in a pen in the corral, gave him the feed and his wife and kids gave the kid all the encouragement in the world.I took the kid and the feedlot owner's kids out to dinner several times over the winter and every time the kid just impressed me more and more, he hadn't been given many people skills at home but he was smart as heck, and just needed someone to believe in him.

He did very well on achievement day and even won several awards within his own club at the end of tye year. He was chosen by the club leaders as the most oustanding first year member for his team spirit, helpfulness etc. It is the award I sponsor, so the night of the banquet it was such a pleasure for me to present the kid with a duffle bag with my logo, and his name on it. He cried on the stage, gave me a big hug and before the evening was over he came over and handed me a thank you card with the following message:

" thanks for making a difference in my life, give me a call sometime and I'll take you out to dinner'.


That is why I support 4-H, if it gives one kid a leg up in life its worth it !

[cswilson]

My Dad had the same views of Beef 4H that you do cowman and never put me in it-after having been a leader for 10 years and having kids in it for 12-four now in total-I will never forgive him for that. Win,lose or draw-4H is a great deal for kids-my kids have finished dead last and they've won the whole deal different times but they've always had a good time and learned lessons.Your going to run into parents that give you grief no matter what you do-try coaching AA hockey for a few years.

[coppertop]

Anytime you have kids involved in something where they have the potential to WIN any award, or top a sale the worst will come out in some parents, but for the most part I have found that 4-H families are there to support not only their own kids but to encourage others.

Will post the price average sometime tomorrow.

[coppertop]

As promised here are the sale averages for our local show.

Total of 42 steer projects.

Grand Champion sold for $2.60 per pound
Reserve Grand Champion....$2.90 per pound.
Over all average on all steers $2.12 per pound.

[cswilson]

Coppertop how is the shrink handled at your 4H sale-our kids first lesson is how much Nilson Bros. like to stick it to cattlemen of any age and size. We show all day Tuesday-weigh Tuesday night and then they take a three percent shrink-plus charge those kids full commission-they take about an hour to sell them after a regular cattle sale. I was at a 4H show and sale in Montana last summer-their sale weight is taken the night before the show and no pencil shrink-those calves never eat or drink much on show day-the three percent pencik is a little much-ohh well NB might buy a calf for a nickle under the market if they can lol. Guess I'm not a NB fan lol.

[coppertop]

The calves are weighed the morning of the show/sale and 3% shrink is deducted at that time. The sale catalog is printed after the show, and the sale weight is listed as well as the weight upon arrival at the show/sale so purchasers can see how the shink is factored.

I was still a leader when we started applying the 3% shrink, some of the parents blew their tops, but the kids seemed to understand, and now its just a fact they deal with every year.

They have never paid commission at this show and sale. The same family has donated their auctioneering services, clerking etc., for 40 years. All the clubs make sure the kids know just how much the commission would have been to sell their steer, and add it up after the sale to show the club members how much the auctioneers are donating each year.

The use of the facililty is paid for by the local Agricultural Society, but the 4-H Interclub has been paying truckers to haul calves to the slaughter facilities for the past ten years. They used to rely on people to donate their truck/trailers etc., but one year someone in the 4-H leadership ticked off one of the truckers and he didn't show up the following year to donate his time. After that they decided to pay a small stipend to ensure they had trucking available after the sale.

This show has turned very professional as far as classes go, including a 'Breeders Herd'. The show used to be over at 4:00 in the afternoon and the sale commenced at 6:00, now the show starts at 9:30 AM and runs until 6:00, then the sale starts at 7:00. It makes for a very long day for everyone, particularly the younger members. The buyers usually show up around 5:00 and go out to look at the steers, talk to the 4-H members etc., and have sure kept up the support for the kids.