New composite

[grassfarmer]

I was reading in Cattleman of the outfit in Manitoba that are breeding a new composite cattle breed.The guy was concerned his calves were being discounted by feeder buyers because they didn't do well on the grid. These were char x simm/here FI cows. Feedlot buyers told him the 1/2 british 1/2 exotic cross worked better for grid selling. So he has developed a composite program using 20(?)breeds and the final animal will be red or black non diluter. They plan to sell bulls and females I think. Now this is an elaborate and expensive plan using genotyping to determine homozygous and heterozygous status but a couple of things seem strange to me. They say "Part of the purpose of the composite is to capture hybrid vigour which only works if the foundation animals are different from one another genetically" yet they are talking about using both Angus and Black Charolais in the mix - how genetically different are those two? surely that is a flaw in the program? ...unless they used Galloways to "black" the charolais.
How much extra will be gained by the composite's hybrid vigour compared to just crossing a herd of say,red angus cows, with a charolais bull? wouldn't that be cheaper and easier? If they plan to sell bulls that would be possible with Char x angus too - Soderglen are doing that already.
Isn't this just mongrelisation gone mad?

[cswilson]

Yeah I read that article seemed a bit pie in the sky to me-they never mentioned how many cows they have. It sounds like an extension agent found a live one to bedazzle.

[cowman]

I don't know. What are Beefboosters? Aren't they a composite designed to meet certain conditions?
How about the U of A herd at Kinsella developed by Dr. Berg? He claimed they were superior to any purebred or F1 herd? How about the Hays Converter? Hays contended they were the best cattle for his environment and I believe he proved it in practical experiments?
What is a purebred? Is it really any different than a bunch of old inbred barncats?

[cswilson]

This guy was going to develop a 20 breed composite in not a very long time-I wish him well.

[PureCountry]

Cowman, the Hays Converters died out because they were VERY large cattle that did not do well for a lot of people when they looked past the weaning weights and paid attention to costs.

The U of A cows are exceptional animals, but they are not a 20 breed composite.

In the story of the Waigroup Angus of Australia/New Zealand, they say that breeding program was started in the 60's. Mr. Falloon and a Chinese geneticist formed a breeding plan, and calculated that to have 100% predictability/prepotency in the cattle to pass on their traits, would take 125 years of strict culling and selection management.

This guy - whoever he is - is not going to do it anytime soon, and certainly not with 20 breeds. It is as grassfarmer said, nothing more than mongrelisation at it's finest. We do not need another breed.

We need people like him to take their passion and effort and redirect into an existing breed. Seek out exceptional individuals and form your breeding plan on that. He would do himself and the whole industry a greater justice, in the long run.

[grassfarmer]

I see no harm in having new breeds purecountry - if there is a purpose for them. New breeds by my definition would be created by gathering together individuals with like characteristics and purifying the type by line breeding until a type is fixed. This is how all domesticated breeds were created, in dogs cattle, sheep, horses etc.
This composite/ crossbred/ hybrid is something different and it isn't a breed - it's like an anti-breed. I am not against crossbreeding in commercial cattle production but lets keep the different bloodlines seperate, each with their own traits, strengths and weaknesses.
The desire to combine the temperment of the limousin, short legs of the Saler, the polledness of a horned hereford with the ease of calving of a belgian blue into one bull which is then sold to breed to a Heinz 57 cowherd is crazy.

[grassfarmer]

I hope that post was tongue in cheek grassfarmer because Belgian Blue sure as heck aren't easy calving !!!

I'm with you on using mixed breed bulls on a herd of cross bred cows. How in heck does a producer know which breed is working best and which breed does he credit with the preferred traits ?

Reminds me of 4-H weigh in, when the kids with the cross bred Heinz 57 calves all called them either Simi or Char because at that time those breed associations gave the best prizes for kids that won on achievement day !!

[cowman]

Seems to me the majority of the calves going through the sales are basically mutts anyway? I mean think about it?
In the 50s/60s everthing was basically Hereford/Shorthorn/Angus? Then in the 70s/80s/90s we bred them to every "flavor of the week"? Later we all followed the latest fad "Angus" because the market said that is what we must do?
Who knows what tommorrow might require?
But whatever it requires...don't you go with the flow? Don't you try to give your customer what he wants? Isn't that just good business?

[PureCountry]

Go with the flow? No thank you.

Stick to quality animals that match up well with my land and pasture base? Yes.

Do it all while still having a highly marketable product if the 'go against the grain' plan fails? Yes, of course.

BUT, I will not chase fads or do whatever each customer wants. In the end, I have to be happy with what I'm producing, and I won't breed a purple bull just b/c they get popular.