Matching cows to environment?

[cowman]

Sometimes I wonder if this little cow syndrome has gone to far? If you live in an area where the climatic conditions and soil will really produce, what do you need these "surviver" type cattle for?
Over the years I've introduced a lot of Angus genetics into my herd as a way of basically counter balancing the Simmental and Char genetics. I believe this has given me a functional cow for my area? Might not work out in the desert? I really don't want a really small cow...like them right in that 1400 lb. range...in their working clothes!
At the local bred cow sales the bigger cows(1500 lb. or more) always bring more and bred heifers under 1100 lbs, just don't sell very well here at all!
I do realize that this is a lush area and these type of animals might not work in other places? I have also realized my bigger cows usually produce my bigger calves and they all eat at the same place! The bigger cows keep their condition just as well as the smaller ones.

[silverback]

The $64,000 question is could you have more smaller cows on the same acres and produce more pounds of calf at the auction? No way to measure it easily as far as I can see. It is always nice to see those big calves roll through though isn't it?

[cowman]

Well siverback you aren't supposed to bring up things like personal satisfaction! It's supposed to be a business?
I don't know. The darned returns on investment are a joke at the best of times...I figure you have to justify doing this however you can?
Personally I get the "warm fuzzies" when my calves rock my world! Maybe I could make more raising some little furry runts...but hey if I wanted to get rich I'd be in drugs or government or something?

[rkaiser]

Cowman says - Maybe I could make more raising some little furry runts...but hey if I wanted to get rich I'd be in drugs or government or something?

Funny how you used the little furry runt analogy cowman.

Could have used a description like, "hard feeding, raw boned, short haired, slab sided, cow hocked, rat tailed, hay burners."

Most of us still would have got your point.

[cowman]

Actually I wasn't pointing any fingers but was referring to those little late calves that are real hairy in the fall?
I don't have anything against the type of cattle you raise. I've seen some very good bulls at the Little Red test center that were Black Welsh.
I do believe certain types of cattle are suited for different regions. No way would I want to try to raise Simmentals in a place like Hanna or Consort...they'd probably all starve to death!
But I do believe the big exotics can really crank up production where the grass is lush, like at Rocky Mountain House or Rimbey? There are some really big calves that come out of those areas.

[cowman]

Sometimes the smallest cow produces the best calf year after year. I think that anyone who really 'does their math' has got to pencil out the cost of maintaining their cowherd, based on the size of the cows in that herd. When feed is reasonably priced folks tend to forget the actual cost of feeding the 'gals' but when we had drought and costly feed, those smaller cows that produced good average sized calves made a lot more sense than having a herd of 1800 pound cows to feed.

As in all things, what works best for the individual operator is the way they should go !!!!!

[kato]

The type of cow should match the environment she's in. If you've got the type of pasture that can support the capabilities of a high producing cow, then go for it.

A cow that raises a 400 pound calf after chalking up the same grazing bill at the PFRA as one that raises a 700 pound calf hasn't really been more profitable. If you graze them at home and can pack an extra 30% more cows into the same pasture, she may well pencil out. It's however your operation is set up that will decide what kind of cows to have.

We like them around 1400 pounds too. It's a size that works for us the best. The salvage value of the cow is also a consideration ... in normal times, anyway.

[PureCountry]

I'm not going to get into all the pros and cons of big cows VS. small cows, but just on that salvage value point, how many 'big' cows, exotic blood that is, produce a calf year in, year out for 12-18 years? Don't give me examples of one or two old Betsy's, I mean a whole damn herd. Smaller framed British based cows live alot longer on average. Trying to figure out how much more money - OR LESS - is made w/big cows producing 6-8 calves VS. small cows producing 10-16 calves in their lives is something that should be calculated in your own office, for your own evaluation. It's not something I'll argue here, but I will say that when I've figured it out in my own herd, very, very, very few cows over 1500lbs have ever made more money than 1200lb cows.

Breed whatever in the Hell you want, as long as your making a profit and not dumping crap breeding stock into the industry, who cares?

[PureCountry]

Exactly PureCountry. My neighbour has a herd of simi's that are big cows, look great and raise good calves for him. Another neighbour has a herd of black and black baldies that raise good calves as well, its all about choices....

[cowman]

I suspect the really big exotic cows don't last as long as some British cows but I think the crossbreds can and do last if the feed is matched to the animal? I don't think a 1500 lb. cow would last if she was getting the nutrition the small cows get in the desert? She wouldn't get enough feed to keep her milking heavy and recycle.
I don't think Hereford cows last all that long and they are a British breed? In reality 12 years is about all you can expect? And I doubt angus cows do much better.

[cowman]

feed and mineral requirements as well cowman. I am always surprised when producers don't get their well water analyzed, particularly if it is the cattle's main source of water supply.
Mineral content of water can tell a producer a lot about what type of minerals they will need to provide to their herd.