Shareholders!

[Cedar]

Speaking of shareholders: Apparently the packers have them, and apparently some of those shareholders consist of groups such as the Ontario Teacher's Union (from what I understand, a very "well-healed" union!) Sorry, guys, I'm really, really befuddled here! Can somebody help me out to understand this?..... I'm workin' my butt off here trying to "stay alive" while some bunch of city-slickin' jerks who have a sizable monthly paycheque and an excellent pension plan are sittin' on their fat arsses collecting money out of the "food chain"?!??!! Right out of my "back pocket", so to speak??!!?! What gives? How does this make any sense at all? What country with any kind of sense would allow this to happen???? There should be laws to keep city-slickin' investors out of the food chain....there already ain't enough to go around....why in the world should we have to share (even to the point of our own demise) with someone who contributes nothing to the system. AAAHHH!!!!

OK...I'm done! I feel better now...I think!

[farmers_son]

Primary agriculture only accounts for 1.7% of Agri-food GDP in Canada. Processing, distribution and food service account for the remaining 6.6%, accounting for Agri-foods 8.3% of the Canadian economy in 1998.

If you think, as I do, that there are profits to be made by investing further up the food chain I would encourage you and everyone reading this to consider investing in those opportunities yourself.

[SASH]

There's nothing stopping you from buying shares in the packing industry. In fact I know lots of farmers who own shares in agricultural industies simply to keep themselves hedged on their production. You can also buy options on most of those stocks which can give you leverage if these stocks go up or down substantially. No different then getting into the futures market to hedge yourself. The last I heard, even though fed cattle prices in the US are quite high only 20 odd percent of future production is hedge which means that 70 odd percent of production is toatally exposed to the swings of the market and yet they complain so loudly about the border being opened and their prices dropping even though they have the tools to secure themselves against the price dropping. The packers would prefer to deal in the futures market as well because it takes alot of risk out buying when they know what their price is going to be as well. This goes back to my comment on the traditional farmer vs the agribusinessman. Not fair really, but unfortunately it seems to be reality.

[intr3est]

I don't understand this question. I don't have direct ownership in the oil business, but I still invest, I still make money. I also invest in other "city slicker" companies! That's the great thing about this country, we have the right to invest in the money making ability of the rest of the population and society!

[Cedar]

Sorry, guys, I must have done a poor job on explaining my point.

farmers_son: "If you think, as I do, that there are profits to be made by investing further up the food chain I would encourage you and everyone reading this to consider investing in those opportunities yourself."

Sounds Great!!! But, please, tell me how...on this kind of income....could I possibly ever be able to?

SASH: Guess I should study up on futures markets and such, but, aw...geeze...I'm just a dumb farmer!!! I feel my time is best spent tending my animals and working on genetic improvements and such. How much more stuff do I have to learn just to survive?????

intr3est: "I don't understand this question."

I agree.

intr3est: "I don't have direct ownership in the oil business, but I still invest, I still make money."

Congrats! That's great! The oil business is a different type of business. It's a place that is price controlled and everybody's rollin' in the dough, from what I understand. Agriculture is a different story because: 1) It's FOOD! Aside from water, the most important and necessary element known to man (and beast). How is it then, that those who are engaged in the primary production of such a product (without whom the rest of the "chain" could not possibly exist) are having to fight and claw their way just to survive? And I don't mean just cattle, as I heard on the radio today.."the perfect storm".. affecting hogs, cattle, grain, etc. all at the same time! What gives? 2) The industry is extremely unbalanced with a few players making big bucks and some barely (or not even) making a living. Everybody else on up the chain simply adjusts their purchase prices to account for any of their increased expenses. Like Rick Pascal said about the additional costs that will likely be incurred once the border opens, "I'll just bid that much lower on the animals I buy". We, as primary producers cannot even think about doing that! There's nobody to pass it on to! We just sit here and take whatever we get! Duh! And, of course, input costs just keep going higher and higher, and higher...fuel costs would be just one example. But I guess the only way to get by that one would be to invest in the oil patch...hmmm...duh! why didn't I think of that??? ...(before I started farming and still had the money to do so!) Oh ya, I really missed the boat there...why didn't I take that "loot" and invest in oil and just sit around collecting a fat cheque instead of trying to help feed the people of this country (and other countries, of course). After all, people don't need food...only oil!!!!

intr3est: "That's the great thing about this country, we have the right to invest in the money making ability of the rest of the population and society!"

This comment comes closest to hitting on my original point. If we had some "money making ability" at the primary producer level, this would be fine! However, we do not! If any industry already has enough money to go around (to ALL the players), and especially if it's production of a non-essential good, like the oil patch, then..ok, fine, that's great. However, when one segment of an industry is failing more and more all the time, how can the rest of society have the right to "invest" in that industry, further depriving that one segment of it's just rewards? Like, if the chain doesn't provide enough income for all those involved directly in it to begin with, then why in the world does anybody have the right to sit on their behinds and invest and rake more money out of the system???? Knowing full well that that money is ultimately "stolen" right out of the back pockets of primary producers, because of the power of the megacorps and everyone else's ability to "adjust" their prices!

(Hope I'm making some sense here!)

[cowman]

Welcome to the real world! What is so hard to understand?
If whatever you do, doesn't get the bills paid then it only makes sense you have to do something else?
So if you aren't making enough selling calves or hogs or grain then you need to decide if you can make more, live cheaper or do something else. Take grassfarmer as an example: He doesn't like what he was getting paid for his calves so he came up with a plan to add value to them.
Many producers, right now, are gazing in the crystal ball right now and coming to the conclusion that agriculture just won't cut it anymore...and that is a good thing? They can now make the decision that they need to get on with their lives and do the things necessary to succeed somewhere else. Perhaps that means getting re-educated for other carreers or trying to salvage money to start another business venture? As they leave that will create opportunities for others.