Madness

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu, I sympathise with the sheep producers in this - this is one area where we don't seem to have followed the British model. There was never any problem with sheep there - it was a cattle problem. No export bans and at the hight of the BSE troubles it was the sheep half of our enterprises that kept many of us going. Indeed 1996 the worst beef year saw record high prices for sheep as beef consumers switched to lamb. The French did come up with some ridiculous rule later that lambs had to be certified under a certain age before they could be exported bone-in but I think they have dropped it now, it was purely a trade protection issue. Whether Scrapie had anything to do with the original outbreaks of BSE is debateable but certainly there is no cross species transmission so no reason why sheep shouldn't be exportable.
I know from a relative that works in Gov. in the NWT that the rules stopping hunters taking the heads of their kills home was pretty quickly dropped last year - of course most of the hunters were Americans - funny how that's different to beef or sheep!

[cakadu]

I'm curious to know what it is like to get people to come forward to become delegates/board members for organizations like the ABP? I don't have any experience with it obviously, being in the sheep business, but it seems to me that I get a booklet every year in my mail box with potential/returning candidates.

I think RP has his nomination papers in already - or at least is in the process of doing it - so maybe what it will take is more new people to come forward to become representatives. Not necessarily new to the cattle business, but new to being involved and committed to bringing new ideas to the table.

I'm sure that there is a certain percentage every year that are replaced, so what would happen if every year for the next several years, you brought in people dedicated to making a positive change? The unknown, of course, is how easy it would be to effect change once on the inside.

As far as the sheep link goes with respect to BSE, you're quite right grassfarmer, there hasn't been a study that conclusively links sheep to BSE. There is absolutely no basis for the border to be closed to lambs.

Many sheep producers were caught with heavy lambs - they like them up to 160 lbs in the U.S. - that they couldn't sell here because our markets go for that 110-120 lbs.

That is the problem that we livestock producers have - we are dealing with a perishable product that can go past it's prime and be worth far less. Once it is processed and frozen, then we are dealing with an even shorter time frame because of the shelf life of frozen meat.

[cowman]

There are new people always coming into ABP, but also there are a lot of old boys who seem to have been there forever. Which is okay because they are the guys who are interested enough to put in the effort?
The whole thing about the ABP was basically it was imposed upon us whether we wanted it or not! Well actually it was almost total apathy on the part of beef producers!
About ten years ago we got a vote on whether the checkoff should remain mandatory and about 12% of eligible voters bothered to vote! Slightly more than 6% of eligible voters decided to keep the checkoff.
If the checkoff was voluntary I guess we would soon learn just how much the ABP was really supported?
I will readily admit I have never supported the ABP. Quite frankly I think they have looked out more for their "special friends" than for the overall industry! They seem to always support the packers,feedlots and big public land leaseholders, than they do the small cow/calf guy?
I sometimes see our situation up here as quite similar to the USA? NCBA is the "official"voice of the beef industry there, sort of like CCA/ABP is here? And R-calf is the voice of the cow/calf guy? Will BIG C be our R-CALF?
When your official cattle organizations seem to be doing everything to help to get rid of you maybe it is time to replace them with another group,that will look out for your interests?

[cakadu]

Cowman, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with having long-term members in any organization, indeed it is necessary for continuity, there still needs to eventually be a turnover because things can get very stale or entrenched if you don't.

That is why many organizations generally have a rule as to how long you can serve the organization i.e. serving 2 x 3 year terms and then you move on. Even if an organization is being very well served by certain individuals, there still needs to be a turnover. The hallmark of a true leader is to bring up other leaders, so succession is critical.

One of the problems with maintaining the status quo is that you perceive your needs are being met, while in reality that isn't always the case.

[cowman]

Linda: The actual problem is the majority of cattle producers just don't care? Or am I wrong?
When 12% bother to vote on what was in reality whether there would be an ABP or not, I would suggest it really doesn't matter?
How many people do they get out to their meetings or delegate elections? Would it be in the neighborhood of 1% of producers?
I never supported the ABP/ACC and I worked pretty hard to get rid of them...time and money! Have no interest in any kind of organization that "forces" me to pay for their policies of unfair competition.If there was an R-CALF in Canada I'd be joining that!

[wd40]

Cowman - interesting thread - I have been thinking that maybe if enough producers buy a share in these packing plants maybe they would be a better lobby. I mean if 5000 producers had shares in one of these plants that would be about 5 times larger than the number that voted in the last ABP election.
The other thing I'm thinken (don't know if it's cowsence or not) but if I were to retain a ownership in my calves through to slaughter my calves would save alot in commissions and eliminate all checkoff dollar collections. Been told that some calves change hands 5 times. That's alot of check of dollars and commissions. HmHm

[cakadu]

The checkoff that you pay is $3.00/animal, correct? Is that every time the animal changes hands?

We've had a checkoff in the lamb industry for a number of years, but that was sort of on the honor system until January 1 of this year when we had to start putting tags in their ears when they left the farm. Now the $1.00 checkoff is paid when you buy the tags.

Any thoughts on why there is so much apathy with these organizations? More importantly, what would it take to get real interest going? More people like RP getting involved?

[cowman]

I really can't explain the apathy thing Linda, but perhaps it is just a feeling of why bother nothing will change or perhaps most producers just feel the ABP is doing a good job? Maybe that is the answer?
I suspect if Randy and some others of a like mind got in, it would make for some interesting times? I suspect he would stir the pot?
My ABP representative is a boyhood friend. I worked pretty diligently to get rid of the ABP when they had the checkoff referendum...he worked just as hard to keep it! We never had a problem with our friendship over our difference of opinion! I still respect his intelligence and committment...he just sees things different than I do. It is actually good to listen to how he sees things as it gives one a different perspective? Might not agree with it but you see how the other side sees it?