Testing

[cswilson]

This might be a dumb question but if everything was tested wouldn't that make the 30 month rule redundant.

[whiteface]

It sure would. I personally believe testing as a marketing tool first and a safety thing second. Overall, I would like us as Canadian Cattle Producers to not be held hostage by the Americans or anyone for that matter. Apparantly it's our cattle that have the "problem" then we look after our "problem" and stop pleading with the Americans to please play with us like some shy kid on the playground. Sure some kids will play with shy kids but bullys will not and that what the Americans are doing to us. No thanks. We build cattle, we build facilities, we give the consumers what they're asking for. Japan, Canada or the Moon - we look to the markets that want the product and right now Japan is screaming what they want and no one seems to be listening. So we listen!!!
We have a product for sale and a willing buyer in front of us. You're a purebred breeder aren't you cswilson? rpkaiser? You know that bull buyers ask for a product and we try our damdest to produce it. That's business. I don't know what the reprecussions are when we find more cases ( we most certainly will ) but it would just have to be better than sitting around and waiting for someone else to decide for us wouldn't it. I'm looking for feedback on this guys, because rather than lay down and die I see and advantage here... and especially since some of the guys down there have, in no uncertain terms, let us know they don't intend to play fair, that gives us "permission" I think to work out our own problem based on free enterprise ( that's why we chose cattle - remember - instead of a quota business ) Let's go with it, what are the downsides guys, there usually is with any major decision. Toss it around, write back. Let's do it!!!!!

[cswilson]

My point was really that might be just as cost effective to test everything than to try and age and segregate carcasses-not sure this tooth thing is that accurate. I think the border will open in spite of not because of the fervent finger pointing on both sides of the border.

[cswilson]

Yes the border will open, but will things go back to normal? I would like nothing less than to do more business with folks in the states. Our purebred herds need each other and our breeders need each others experience and knowledge. So much of this issue revolves around radical groups, however cswilson, I don't think that the little bit of finger pointing that us Canadian boys is any match for Rcalf, or Senator Dashal.USDA has called it a North American problem with solutions only based on science, and our CFIA,and CCA, and Provincial government, (who I spoke with all today), take a similar approach. Hard to argue with the ultimate reasoning, however it is always the Canadian Cattle producer who bears the brunt of comments like "we are officially very diappointed with the Montana judges ruling".

This will end some day wilson, but it has made me, and I would think a few others bitter enough not to want to deal with certain American aspects of the industry ever again. If that is finger pointing, so be it.

By the way folks, the official position of the CCA was to not support payments linked to slaughter, but they went along with the government plan to get something moving, and will say, and we have to admit, it did help. The part that I will never give in to however, is the fact that the 400 million was called a farm aid program. The majority of this program either went directly to, or trickled up (by way of a major discounted offering price) to the three packers, and they were left to decide on how much to pass down to feedlot, and cow/calf folks.

Found out today that there really would be no point in finding a truck to lay down in front of as CCA rep Cindy said that with the price difference, it would be out of the question for Canadians to import bone in product.
Packer offering prices actually declined this past week with the "bone in" announcement as well as a drop in the dollar. So I guess that once again the packers were the only ones who stood to gain from this lastest announcement. OOPS, I guess I just pointed the finger again.

I surely hope no cattle producer in Canada (in fact every Canadian, period) ever forgets how they have been treated by Cargil, and Tyson foods, throughout this ordeal, and forge ahead with more domestic paking plants, with the BSE testing for other export markets.

[cswilson]

R-Calf is so much lunatic fringe that their rantings hardly deserve to be dignified by a response. They are like a loudmouth in a bar-sooner or later everybody gets sick of the chirping and thats the end of them.As to profits the industry is healthiest when all segments make money-I don't remember much sympathy for the feedlots when calves were skyhigh and they were bleeding red. I guess if a cow/calf guy thinks they are stealing his product there is always the option of retained ownership. In fact every cattle producer should feed a set of cattle once in awhile-we started retaining our calves 18 years ago and I'd never go back to selling calves.

[cakadu]

The "normal" business cycle has been that when it's your turn to make money, you do because you don't know when it will be your turn again. Case in point is the feedlot guys buying expensive calves, grain prices being low and as one grain farmer I talked to said "subsidizing" livestock production, outrageous hay prices. Does anyone ask to pay the grain farmer more - no instead we look for cheaper sources of feed for the animals, including bringing in fusarium laden grains from elsewhere. Who cares if it hurts the malting barley industry, right?

It is a dog eat dog business right now and until we learn to enable each part getting his fair share, we will continue to each try and be the "big dog" when it comes to our own segment of the industry.

We really have to get this interdependence thing going - I see it as the only way we can all survive. Each segment or individual has to be able to get value for what he/she/it is doing, otherwise eventually it will all collapse in on itself.

How do we stop this cyclical pattern and ensure that we can all get a piece of the pie?

[cakadu]

Ther is room for verticle integrated markets outside of the Cargil idea. We started with the price we can receive for our finished product at the restaurants and meat markets. Took that and offered our feedlot guy a flat cost per pound of gain price that exceded EXCEDED his estimates for feed costs and yardage. Once we had our top price locked up for a year, and the feedlot costs pegged, it was simple to develop a breakeven for purchased calves. Now our producers have the option of seeing exactly what they can get for a finished price (less some death risk) or they can sell us their calves with our interest, and death risk penciled in. No major profit for anyone along the chain, but whims of the packers, and effects of profits and losses by each of the players in this scheme are lost in translation.

[cswilson]

Good for you rp sounds like you got something good started-the business for sure is very predatory-we buy all our feed and it is actually kind of funny at times. We've brought in dairy quality hay from 6 hours away cheaper than we can buy it 3 miles down the road. I'm actually kind of relishing a good hay crop be nice for a change. I guess we all have the option of changing what we do with our product if we don't like the price were getting. We used to video calves for satellite and it never failed-there was big trouble with the sortoffs(rattails,off types etc.) You always got accused of stealing them but when you offered to buy the guy a load of them at the same price so he could get rich they all of a sudden backed off.

[cakadu]

RP - it very much sounds like you have captured the essence of what a value-chain is all about. It isn't meant to make one rich, what it is meant to do is mitigate risk, help you with selling all your product at a reasonable price and taking the competitiveness out of the entire system.

Transparency is vital, as is trust and if everyone knows what to expect, then plans can be made and actions carried out.

Best of luck.

[bnyoung]

Testing is good. Now, can anyone tell me exactly how many domestically owned slaughter/packing plants there are in Canada? How many are federally inspected facilities? As for judging the age of an animal by its teeth, that's just plain goofy as there have been numerous instances where it has been known that an animal has been under 30 months of age, but because of this thing with the teeth, the animal has been judged over 30 months. Back to the plants. I know that here in Ontario there are a lot of problems with provincial inspectors, they're not as good as the federal ones. How many plants would we need to look after our own domestically grown beef. Why is it that we have to send our product south of the border for processing, and then buy it back? I just don't get it.