Reduced Cattle Sales

[ASRG]

Sadie: I have heard that this vaccine will be about $6/animal and probably mandatory.
Like you say Ecoli is part of the gut flora (in cattle AND humans). I get nervous when the so called scientists try to micro manage nature!
Will a vaccine give us a false sense of security? If dirty unsanitary conditions are the real problem will a vaccine be the magic bullet that allows the packers to continue with the same practices? Will it get even worse?
Ecoli 57 is only one bug that can make you sick (or kill you). What about samonella or listeria or who knows what else?
I suspect if the rules in place had been followed/enforced we wouldn't need a vaccine?

[rkaiser]

Yes ecoli is normal Sadie, just as the prion is normal. And yes most food cooked properly will eliminate waste. Other than the problem with tenderizing knives used in this case. Which leads to another whole story. Why the hell do you need to tenderize a strip loin in the first place?

Factory raised cattle for "profit only" is the problem. I have heard lots of talk over the years about excessive hair on cattle and the (shit)tag issues. Another excuse to not use some forage in the feed to not only tighten the cattle up, but to also increase the good bugs that are being killed in the rumen which are crucial to creation of good trans fatty acids like CLA. Loose shit spreads fast folks; simple as that.

Every problem that we have brought on to ourselves in the conventional cattle industry can still be fixed. And it is not going to be fixed with another mask like an ecoli vaccine.

I personally don't feel we have to go to the extreme of shooting cattle finished in a grassy pasture, but hair on those who do.

There are people all over this planet ready and willing to pay more money for cattle raised and harvested with care. And the kind of care needed to supply these type of cattle would not take a complete change in the current factory system, just a shift.

First off, raise them with no implants and no antibiotics unless they need shots for illness. Exceed the withdrawal time and track those animals that are chronic. Maybe the purebred guys could even kick in here and create cattle that are don't get sick. Bet we could use some research money to identify breeds or lines within breeds that remain healthier. Cow calf guys have surely found many ways to eliminate the stressors that cause illness at weaning. What is the point of weaning into the auction mart for instance, ---profit or care?

The big change would obviously take place in the feedlot with the use of space and bedding and elimination of all the crutches and so called "money maker" unnatural shit.

From here up, we need to accept that some companies may actually have the where with all to slaughter cattle in a clean and efficient manner. I personally believe that more smaller plants are a good idea, but that is just me. Clean harvest is not usually the issue as much as greed and need to control the commodity at all levels.

[grassfarmer]

"REMEMBER THAT ECOLI is a common bacteria bug
that is in the intestinal tract of the animal---normal
floral."
The ecoli 0157 strain isn't the common, every day
variety though. It thrives in the acidic rumen created
by feeding a high grain ration, I've read that feeding
the ethanol by-products also increases its prevalence.
The way to reduce the levels naturally is fattening
cattle on grass but that likely wouldn't completely
eliminate it either.
When we had the outbreak in Scotland in the 90s that
killed 21 people the inquiry resulted in a requirement
that all animals entering slaughter plants had to be
clean and free of tag. After that we had to belly clip
all sheep and cattle through the winter housing
period just prior to slaughter. You think tagging
cattle is dangerous? wait till you try belly clipping
Limo cross fat cattle!!
It was probably all in vain to placate the public and
make it look like the politicians were doing
something. It implied the ecoli 0157 was on the tag
on the outside of the animal and not in their gut tract
which is probably flawed. I'd definitely go the $6
vaccine route before mandating clean animals going
into the plant.

[littledoggie]

rkaiser, don't give Nilsson's any ideas for why the government should give them a bunch of money and then take your ideology and have the government make it all mandatory.

Media has whipped this into a frenzy. 10 people sick? They keep adding to the number, but then the grand total doesn't keep going up. Does this mean that some of the cases have not been linked? Have there ever been any reports of vCJD in Canada related to BSE?

I'm starting to smell a rat here.

[littledoggie]

Regarding e-coli 0157, tag versus gut. The gut bag probably comes out pretty clean. The tag could be an issue if the cattle have been standing in pen muck, and then they hang the carcass with the head down and peel the hide from the top down, but what about the legs? and then they wash them - seems like any bacteria on the legs would all wash down over the carcass. I see e-coli contamination of meat to be a packer's problem, not cow/calf. Feedlots maybe need to provide more bedding and more room.

[rkaiser]

LOL littledoggie. NB stealing the idea... Why do you think they bought half of Bern's Spring Creek program. Because they care about cattle and humans? LOL Because they love what they do. Hogwash - all about profit and opportunity.

I wish that Brian would come on Agriville and correct me when I say that the only reason they are in the biz is money.

If that is the only reason we are in the biz little doggie, we got no more potential than they do.

This little "idea" of mine is not rocket science and is a middle of the road scheme that is being used all over the world. More so than in the good old USA than even here in Canada.

This microcosm that we are using in Calgary at Second to None Meats shops and and the little bit bigger program that Christoph has going are only the beginning in my mind.

Don't like the way that feedlots are feeding? Don't like the way that plants are harvesting cattle? This is a free and progressive country and the government still listens to the masses.

If we were the masses and cared about our industry and our cattle and the consumer, we could do this all ourselves. The government is in a pickle and looking for options right now.

Let's give them an option I say. Revive the levy funded cattle harvest facility idea brought forward by Beef Initiative Canada after BSE.

Instead of me chasing non industry money to change the face of the packing industry we could use our collective power to have the government supply the measly LOAN that it would take to get this idea off the ground.

It has to start with caring. And now for the big bad word that everyone is scared to use..... It is Sunday morning however.... LOL

It has to start with "love".

[littledoggie]

"levy funded cattle harvest facility"
Who is Beef Initiative Canada?

[kato]

It was a response to the BSE fiasco. It was a plan brought about to have producers get together, fund a plant of their own, and have some control over the results. Randy can likely provide more details that I'm likely to miss. It's been a while. LOL

We had meetings, some of them pretty big, all over Western Canada. Lots of enthusiasm from producers, and lots of naysayers as well, mostly from "industry". Big problem? Producers were broke. Industry was taking money to the bank in wheelbarrows.

Absolutley ZERO support from government. Their response was to take initiatives that pretty much solidified the status quo, and even made it more solid.

Which brings us to the mess we've got now.

We were told that too much reliance on the U.S. market was dangerous. IMHO, too much reliance on having most of our cattle processed in two plants was the real danger. The government ran around patting themselves on the back over all the so called new markets they opened up to Canadian beef. All the time they were really opening up markets that they had lost for us by dropping the ball on BSE. And they were opening them up for the products that came out of the two giant plants who had a captive supply of our cattle.

Real improvement, wasn't it?

BTW, I still have my Beef Initiative membership card on my desk. ;-)

[littledoggie]

The timing may have been all wrong. It's pretty hard to convince government that "bigger is not better" when there are 2 huge processing facilities (or were there 3 then?) operating with over-capacity in the country. Maybe now the environment is more favourable for smaller processors. The optics of this argument to the general public would be huge.

[BFW]

Your not still beating that horse are you Randy ? I thought you would have a plant processing by now. Anyway I think the days of the large plants in Canada are numbered and this latest incident will seal it. Not that they will just up and close, more that they will find it increasingly difficult to operate here and also their customers and consumers in general will be at least a little more skeptical about the whole proposition. We in the cattle industry (especially those finishing cattle) have known for a long time that trying to operate profitably in a 2 plant system is near impossible. When only a few cattlefeeders are giving that message to government it is difficult to get anyones attention there. Now,however, the public is involved and they see the risks albeit from another angle. There will be changes. The opportunity for smaller more specialized plants is now and I think they will get the required support required to gain some traction in the marketplace.