Property rights - here we go aaaagain

[Horse]

ASRG I am no lawyer but the leases do state that everything is at the ministers descression, lease holders got the oil revenue probably by crooked means . YOU rent grass from the crown to graze cattle on so where does oil revenue even come in.
If youall paid a resonable rent and didnt bitch because soe wolf in the foothills ate one of your dead cows and tryed to get compensated for when in actual fact if it wasnt for past5ure but oil you rented the land for.
It was said lease holders do such a good job well who looks after the thousands of acres of green area.
As for buying a lease I dont do welfare but why would I buy something that I disagree wiht ,those leases shold be put up for auction for 10 yr terms and then we would see the real value established ( the market is always right) Leases costing several hundreds in rent yielding several thousands in oil and free grass to boot.
$10 per yr rent for a cow calf and I am suposed to sell into the same market where is the level playing field we all crave.
The bottom line if you want to run cows dont expect to have oil pay your way.
Mabey some of you lease holders would disclose what yuor costs and returns are on your leases, I dont have a lease but the going rate around here is $30/mounth and no share of any revenues coming to land owner.

[wd40]

Horse -0 every lease holder would gladly pay their higher rates for the lease if you were willing to pay for beef at the same level of “disposable income” that 3rd world countries pay. How about 100% as in one African country we visited this summer. Instead of what, you’re measly 20%. Get a real grip.

[wd40]

Right on (all but one). I think that one question we can put to the government is exactly what in the H--- they intend to do with the land that they won't lease out. A the present we lessees pay taxes and rent, build and repair fences, develop stock watering sites, put out the prairie fires and keep the range from getting into an overgrown condition.

Ya, the USA tried to do that, and the country got so over grown, fires burned up "Horse" like homes by thee millions. Guess what fire insurance rates skyrocketed on "Horse" like homes. Go for it Horse.

[Horse]

ASRG we all got our noses out of joint over the pay for no meetings and rightly so but how about a ten fold return on rent before you even put a cow out. Why cant I grow the canola I planted last yr if these property rites are so cast in stone, is it not my canola I grew it.
WD40 just open up the leases so everyone has a chance at them and watch the avalanche of aplacations,as for 3rd world prices that is my point exactly I have to sell on the same market as you but you have an 15/to 20% advantage by getting rent at app 1500% below going rates in the private sector then add on the resource revenue and I am sucking a hind tit for sure.
Why dont grasing reserves get oil revenue????
Why dont grazing allotments get oil revenue???
Back to the same question WHY DO grazing leases get OIL REVNUE?????
Paint it any way you want to but a pig is still a pig even with lipstick.

[ASRG]

Some how I am missing the canola connection?
I'm not going to disagree with you on the grazing lease/oil &gas thing. There are some problems there, but that battle was fought many years ago and was supposedly resolved?
I don't have any grazing leases.....I am in an area where basically there is no such thing....and have no desire to obtain a lease.
I would ask you though: How would you use these lands? Would you like government employees managing these lands? Would you like these lands to go back to nature?
It seems to me the people who have been managing these lands are doing a pretty good job? If they gain a few dollars why is that a bad thing? Would you rather the government gain those dollars to piss away on expense accounts and hiring scoundrel politicians who the people voted out?

I'm not completely against your position. I just think you are not getting the big picture.

[Horse]

The canola conection is I grewq it must be mine but I cant do as I please with it , so ,so much for property rites.
What would be wrong with the gov being responsible for a change, the money dosent have to be pissed away, besides does it matter if it is gov or welfare cowboys pissins it up . The fact still remains if it was only grass there would be a lot less cows out there so theroreticaly the market would be stronger so we would all benifit , that is if the free market does exist.Lastly the battle never was fought , but the lease holders are bound to loose just when is the question some day the media will pick up on the $100mill that belongs to the tax payer and you know what will hapen then so far the ABP has done a good job or deflecting public intrest with thier Enviromental stewardshit bullshit I wonder if they ever gave that to anyone not a lease holder I think not, who has the money to be the good stewart unless you get mega bucks free. We mostly all do a fair to good job of stewarding our land but a few $100thou would make it a lot easer.

[Happytrails]

This topic of this thread was lost after the oil revenue hot button issue galloped in. Bill 202 is not about surface lease revenues from grazing leases. It is about wildlife habitat assessments being used as an excuse not to renew lease dispositions. I ask again, what are they going to do with the land if they don't lease it out? WD40 speculated that they would repeat the disasters at Yellowstone. We have to keep preaching that the health of the land is best served by stewards who have a property interest (deeded or lease) in it. There are endless examples of environmental degradation under government management.

PS The $100 M oil revenue from grazing leases club is pretty exclusive. Don't paint the rest of us with the same brush. HT

[samsdad]

For what it's worth, this article appeared
on the Medicine Hat News website this
morning (23 Aug 2012):

http://www.medicinehatnews.com/front-page-
news/bill-202s-sponsor-defends-wording-
amidst-backlash-08232012.html

[Horse]

Sounds like ASRG was jusat trying to stir the pot there dont seem to be anything in there to get excited about.
Leaseholders ass ???? why would they need one are they trying hard to protect what they realize they have no claim to.
Yes not all leases have oil revenue but you all have veeeery cheap rent. Why dont you stand up and say that is wrong or are you waiting to get yours.

[wilagro]

Canadian farmers have been laying back and taking it for years...now all of the sudden they want to actively participate...I mean reciprocate. Who'd a thunk it? More power to 'em as long as they don't get Royally screwed in the process.

[ASRG]

Horse: Actually you were stirring the pot with your ongoing hate for grazing leaseholders? I was trying to point out the further erosion of private property rights.

[Happytrails]

ASRG good on you for putting this forward. And for taking heat from a horses__.

The sponsor of the bill says he didn't understand what it meant. Where have we heard that before? We are under attack from well organized groups who are directing the PC government's agenda, sometimes without the knowledge of most govt MLA's.

Oh and the other end of the horse could have used his head and probably would have bought a lease like almost all leaseholders did. And spread his manure on his own place.

[Horse]

Almost all leases we free not purchased until they got the idea, same as marketing boards to add the cost to the product and clain a windfall.

[ASRG]

Horse: One could argue that homesteads were basically free and CPR land was fairly cheap?
For instance my great grandfather bought 320 acres from the CPR for $3/acre. Today that 320 acres is worth $2 million?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically the leaseholder gets "loss of use" for land taken for oil leases? I don't think they get any adverse affect?

I really don't know if grazing fees are too low? I assume they are basically negotiated between the leasee and the leasor? If the leasor (government) isn't getting enough you should lobby your MLA?

Personally I think these guys are are a pretty cheap solution to managing our public lands. Would you rather have foreign oil companies managing those lands?