South Korea Moves Closer To Allowing Beef From Canada.

[grassfarmer]

Kato, the rules won't change for the US - they are
OIE rules implemented globally. It's not only south
America that has FMD - I get email notification of
outbreaks on a regular basis from China, Russia,
Korea, the fringes of the EU. The disease is
widespread but it's most likely avenue of entry into
Canada would be deliberate sabotage.
I can't believe everybody will sit here and point
fingers about BSE yet fail to even think about FMD.
Badmouthing CFIA or the Government and making
threatening noises that they had better protect us
from FMD while we as an industry have not even had
a discussion on FMD seems hypocritical to me.
Someone mentioned vaccination for FMD - yes,
there is one but no it doesn't mask the disease it
controls it. Vaccination has side effects - the main
one being some countries don't accept beef/cattle
that have been FMD vaccinated. Yet in the face of an
outbreak of FMD OIE rules prohibit export of
beef/cattle anyway. Meanwhile countries like the
Netherlands have vaccinated hogs for decades and
can still export their pork. To my knowledge there
hasn't been a discussion at an industry organization
level on any of this stuff and whether we adopt a
vaccination or cull policy in the case of an outbreak.
Don't you think that should be happening? or are
you happy just to head blindly along and try and sue
the Government retrospectively?

On the BSE score I guess I just look at it different
being closer to the epicentre of the disease in the
UK when it first occurred. It was a disease that came
out of nowhere and no-one could have anticipated
it ahead of the initial cases. On the financial front I
feel we suffered a lot more in the UK that we have
done in Canada. Personally we lost an export market
for native breed cattle to continental Europe as far
back as 1989 so I had 11 years of BSE experience
before any of you saw it in Canada. At the end of
the day it was a business problem - something to
be managed around if we are to continue with our
businesses. I've done that and intend to move on,
no point staying bitter and saying life ended the day
there was a case of BSE in Canada because it didn't.

[burnt]

Well gf, the difference is that in Canada it was NOT a "disease that came out of nowhere and no-one could have anticipated it ahead of the initial cases", in fact, quite the opposite and that is what the government of Canada, through the CFIA, had a "duty of care" to prevent!

Again, taking a pollyanna attitude like you do will not serve anyone's better interests.

It is unfortunate that some, like you, seem willing to give a failed bureaucracy a free pass for their costly ineptitude.

Yet you try to say that we are not concerned about a possible future outbreak when we are trying to drive home the importance of their past failure?

You like to label others who are trying to establish accountability as being "bitter". Good manners would prevent some from slinging some pretty choice descriptors in your direction.

And to causally pass off the losses that some suffered - whether it be financial, social, emotional, psychological or human life - as "a business problem" borders on sociopathic thinking.

Or like a government employee.

By the way, what are you doing to try to prevent FMD from coming here?

[kato]

Our government fostered the type of ineptitude that allowed BSE to hit us, regardless of the known consequences and risk. If a debacle like that takes place, and we who pay the price for it just say "Sorry guys, that's OK, we don't mind", then what's to stop them from doing it again with FMD?

Our lawsuit should be a wake up call to those who have the regulatory power to prevent future disasters. They need to know that we're not "fine with it". They need to know that we expect them to live up to what a government's prime directive is, and that is to protect it's citizens. Protecting it's citizens' food supply has to be at the top of that priority list.

[grassfarmer]

All I'm hearing is the same old, same old. You are
trying to send a message to the Government and to
CFIA that they failed in their job. Fair enough. But
can't you see that we need to have knowledge of
things like FMD - as producers - as an industry, so
that we can better advise those who are in power
about future risks? It's unrealistic to sit back and
complain that they aren't doing their job if we, the
beef producers don't know anything of the risks,
aren't prepared to think about it or even get
involved in the discussion. They at the end of the
day are Government employees with a pay check
and a pension, we are the guys with the skin in the
game so it's obviously always going to mean more
to us than it does to them.

Burnt, I have raised this issue many times in the last
decade with producers, producer organizations and
in personal communications with those I think are in
a position to influence decision makers. So far it's
drawn a blank - biggest blank, perhaps not
surprisingly, is from beef producer organizations
who look at you as if you had two heads.

And I'm pleased to be described as a pollyana - I'd
rather be labelled optimistic than a perpetual
pessimist with a half empty glass.

[kato]

I think you may be underestimating Canadian cattle producers on the FMD issue.

IMHO, traceability, red tape and the nonsense that goes with it, premise ID, and such are being driven by a fear of FMD. I also think that there seems to be an unwritten agreement to not bring up the topic in public unless necessary. That reason may be that there is an underlying worry that to bring it up is to inspire some idiots to try and use it against us.

[cpallett]

"They at the end of the
day are Government employees with a pay check
and a pension, we are the guys with the skin in the
game so it's obviously always going to mean more
to us than it does to them."

Yup, and as long as people are prepared to throw up your hands and say that there is nothing you can do to encourage or establish accountability in government, then nothing will change.

For a fellow who paints himself as an activist that is a pretty limp attitude.

As I wrote earlier, all the producer activism in the world on FMD issues won't mean a GD thing if the government drops the ball (yet again). They are the only ones with the authority and the resources to prevent or contain an FMD outbreak, period.

No accountability = no skin in the game = no motivation to perform = FMD disaster.

Iain, if you are unwilling to take any action or responsibility for helping to improve government accountability, while castigating producers for failing to jump on your particular FMD bandwagon, it might be appropriate that you consider Matthew 7:5-8. At the very least you could be gracious enough to keep your negative thoughts to yourself while the rest of us bust our humps working for changes that will benefit you and every other producer.

Not that I have an opinion or any strong views on the matter. Must be my Scottish ancestry at work yet again.

glac gu teann!

Matthew 11:15

[grassfarmer]

I'm not the one with the negative thoughts -
pollyana and all that.

[ASRG]

I can't remember where I read it but the article I'm thinking about was by some scientist type who said it isn't a question of "if Canada will get FMD.....but when". Apparently there is almost zero inspections of food coming into Canada anymore.....too busy making you take off your shoes and garbage like that!
What would a FMD outbreak do to the cattle herd in Canada? I would suggest it would be the nail in the coffin for a business that is already on the ropes?
Maybe I'm wrong? Despite a lot of interest right now in cows, my local auction mart owner tells me there are stiil a lot of people looking to leave the business. Kind of funny sitting in a cow sale and seeing all these old men 60-70 buying cows! Very few young ones?
Maybe we need to import some more young polyanna types!

[wilagro]

One point grassfarmer...I said that vaccination "masks the problem" NOT that it masks the disease. There is a difference.
Vaccination may be effective for the animals but it doesn't mean that the premises or the equipment is clean and the disease under control or eradicated.

[grassfarmer]

ASRG,
I think the risk is very high also. Not sure what the
inspection status of food coming in is - are you
talking "official" company imports of beef etc from
affected regions or personal importations of food?
One big problem in the UK is the illegal importation
of "bushmeat" typically from Africa. I've read that
some years as much as 10,000 tons might be
involved. Don't know if this occurs in Canada?
The checking of shoes is an important step though
- the FMD virus can survive international air travel
as long as it has a moist medium to hide in hence a
visitor to Canada that has been among infected
animals overseas could well introduce the disease
from dirt on his boots.

"What would a FMD outbreak do to the cattle herd in
Canada?"
Depends entirely on our preparation. Relying on a
19/20th century traceability solution (brands and
brand inspection) is the worst possible preparation.
How bad can it get? well it cost close to 10 million
head of animals in the UK largely due to their
unpreparedness. I'd like to think we could do better
here but the signs are not encouraging.
Maybe Kato could allay our fears by letting slip
some details of the covert plans made by producers
and producer organizations to deal with this?
In reality this is something producers will have no
input in once it occurs - it will be all CFIA and the
army if/when it gets out of control. Producers only
chance to have input is before an outbreak begins.

wilagro, you are right - I misread your comment and
apologize for misquoting it.

[kato]

One thing I know about is the plan for an immediate closure of the single road from Manitoba to Ontario, which would be the Trans Canada highway. It's already been set up and reported on the news here. Within minutes, the country would be cut in half. There is no other way to get from West to East without going through the U.S.

Now the question is, who will be on the right side of the inspection station at West Hawk Lake?

[burnt]

Well I guess it depends on whether one considers the glass half full . . .

[grassfarmer]

There was a strong economic case made for zoning
in the 2002 economic assessment of the cost of an
FMD outbreak in Canada.

http://www.animalhealth.ca/Uploads/UserFiles/File
/FOOTMOUTHFINALREPORT.pdf

It was a very good report hot on the heels of the
2001 FMD outbreak in the UK. Sadly there doesn't
seem to have been much progress made on
planning appropriate precautions since then other
than the zoning plan.
Their worst case scenario, large scale outbreak
model predicts a loss of over 10 million head of
animals and economic loss of around $46 billion.
I don't know what the final cost of BSE is reckoned
to be but believe the first two years were estimated
to have cost around $4 billion just for context.