Putting a price on C02

[ASRG]

However you might view global warming, or climate change, the fact is the "powers that be" have decided that one way or the other things have to change?...something has to be done to save the world from our sinful ways!LOL
Many possible solutions have been floated....some make sense...other are patently absurb!
A carbon tax or cap and trade seem inevitable?....and thats when some pretty goofy ideas start to pop up!
Apparently ruminants produce a fair bit of methane (which incidently is 21 times worse than C02)....and consequently the owner could be taxed (or have to buy offset credits?) for that methane! The figure I see floating around is $76 for a beef cow but am not sure exactly what GHG price that is based on. The Alberta government estimates C02 capture and storage will cost from $50-$110 ton so one ton of methane could be very pricey (21X!).
Can you ever see a day when "carbon reduction schemes" will put that old cow out of business? Will "soy burgers" be our future?

[BTOfarmallll]

Spread The Wealth is coming with The Signed Treaty one day. The President will sign it, most of the Third World Countries will sign it because they think they will get money out of it, most of the left wing regimes around the world & throughout Europe will stamp it. Virtually noone will not sign it. This is the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of man kind. Its called Climate Debt (Carbon Tax), since we have been polluting all these years and the Third World Countries have not. Once the Treaty is signed there is no way out. You need the signature's of all countries in able to not go along with their idea anymore. Since we will be the largest contributors by far, they will not let us out anytime soon. The People have all the Power, BUT noone has the balls to step up to the plate and get things done the right way......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0&feature=player_embedded - Lord Christopher Monckton Speech on the Climate Treaty that one day will become LAW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40&feature=player_embedded - Short Version of Speech - 4 mins

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/documents/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf - Draft Copy of Treaty

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/Doc_Zone/1242299559/ID=1343651361 - Carbon Hunters

http://www.libertygunrights.com/AlertCopenhagenTreatySet.pdf - Proof that Treaties do not Supersede the US Constitution

[BTOfarmallll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwSodS3Wl2Y - Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura: Global Warming

http://www.hara.com/ - The Microsoft of The Global Warming Scam

[grassfarmer]

ASRG,
The cow and the cow keeper should win every time - the pasture based production model ensures we are sequestering more than our cattle produce. Only idiocy would support theories that fossil fuel grown soy would produce less CO2. Unfortunately idiocy does seem to rule the day - just look at the ethanol insanity.

[ASRG]

grassfarmer: while I certainly agree with you that grass stores more carbon than the cow might produce....we don't seem to hear the government talking much about paying for it?
My local fertilizer dealer was trying to promote a carbon offset scheme a few years ago and the bottom line (in 2006) was no till land would get $11/acre...and permanent pasture was set at $31/acre!...of course that went no where, because the government never lived up to it's Kyoto committments!
Now we are getting these goofy schemes to sequester C02 in the ground at a huge cost ? The Alberta government has a fantasy this can be done for $50-$110/tonne but by their own figures $200-$300 is more likely! In pursuing this foolish scam they have expropriated (with no compensation) all the pore space beneath the surface and will be creating a really potential danger to the water supply and indeed human health and life!
But it does fit into the "big is better" theme and they get to deal with their corporate buddies... with all the "opportunities $" that come with that!
A much better, and sustainable,method to reduce C02 would be to pay the landowner to sequester it in trees, grass, etc.....but that doesn't look as sexy as a big new "techie" solution?

[SADIE]

Bill 24 correct. Us Saskatchewan folk are watching very closely what is happening in Alberta on the all those land use bills.

We have lots of problems on our own to deal with but over the years our provincial government aways looks to Alberta politics to lead the way not only in the Oil and Gas sector but also the Minister of Ag sector as well. Going to be a very interesting Alberta Provcial election coming up for you folk.

[ASRG]

Yes Bill 24. Hopefully we can turf these scoundrels, because the Wildrose has promised Bill 24 will be the first one in the garbage can....and that's a personal committment from the leader!
Many have a problem with the Wildrose party saying they are no different than the PC government, however many of their "leading lights", including leader Danielle Smith, have a long history in landowner groups like the Western Stockgrowers and Alberta Property Rights Initiative (APRI).
Alberta has some protections in place that are more "landowner" friendly than Saskatchewan. For example we have a mandatory "entry fee" of $500/acre for oil and gas developement...above and beyond a negotiated settlement.
We can challenge a project or price compensation through the ERCB (Energy Resources Conservation board) or the Surface Rights Board....while in Saskatchewan the Energy Minister makes those decisions! In Saskatchewan the government has expropriated deep mineral rights away from the freehold mineral owner....and they are making moves that many speculate could expropriate the shallow mineral rights without any compensation!
The Alberta government would like to put Alberta landowners in a "competitive position" with Saskatchewan landowners....in other words take away the rights we gained from earlier governments...and make it cheaper for oil companies to operate here!
Alberta and Saskatchewan....a race to the bottom for farmers!

[ASRG]

Further on this Sadie: The landowner group I belong to (Alberta Surface Rights Group) are not anti-oil/gas. We live and deal with oil companies everyday. As with any commercial undertaking we want to be treated fairly and have our property respected?
Albertan governments in the past realized there needed to be a level playing field between the companies and the farmers, which would lead to situations where all could thrive and be mainly happy.
The present Alberta government has crawled into bed with big multi-nationals that don't recognize the fact that doing business fairly, makes for happy campers! These corporations "bought" the politicians to squeeze the last nickel out of the landowners! This has created anger and more and more conflict out in the country? We need a government that can re-invent that spirit of farmer/company co-operation that was evident before the Klein/Stelmach era!

[SADIE]

ASRG--I am very aware of all of your comments. That is why I said "Saskatchewan has problems of its own to deal with".

Your handle appears to be new on this forum. I lived in Consort and Provost area from 1977-1996 owned and operated and set up two veterinary clinics in both those communities. Saw the Oil and gas activity and how it affected my cattle clients in those areas. Became very aware of the Alberta Surface RIghts during that time.

In Saskatchewan I volunteered and became the founding president of the Saskatchewan Association of Pipeline Landowners encouraged and coached by CAPLA out of South Western Ontario along the Enbridge Corridor Alberta Clipper Project. Now SAPL integrated with CAEPLA (mentioned before on this forum several times) I remain dedicated and loyal to CAEPLA and will work when called upon by CAEPLA (Regina office) to do whatever they feel appropriate. Nov 7 (?) 2007 were part of CAPLA as guest speakers in Camrose at the Alberta Surface RIghts Meeting.

Feb 2008 At the Cadogan surface rights meetings was the quest speaker presenting the recent SAPL/MPLA ENBRIDDGE negotiated settlement to that group----Many were joining with AAPL along the Transcanada Keystone and Keystone XL line.

I am able to do this work because the Huge SAPL/MPLA ENBRIDGE NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT was not bound by confidentiality agreements. This also gave me the opportunity to be the expert witness at two Alberta Compensation Hearings on a power line hearing in Peace River and a Corridor Pipeline Alberta compensation hearing in Westlock Alberta in APRIL 2011.

I can explain in detail all aspects of the 40 page settlement agreement and discuss in detail the $35 linear metre payment on the ALberta Clipper Project. This was the first ever linear payment negotiated in Canadian History on Pipelines. The negotiations between the landowner groups and Enbridge pipelines took place in Brandon Manitoba July 31-Aug1 2007 and Sept 18 in Regina 2007. The settlements were signed by myself on Oct 12 2007 and MPLA president on behalf of about 450 landowners.

As a member of CAEPLA---CANADIAN Alliance of Energy and Pipeline Landowner Associations who are national and Pro-energy developement but bringing forward the concerns of the safety and the environmental concerns of the landowners that the energy companies impose when they construct on landowners properties.

[ASRG]

Sadie: Our group is not the Alberta Surface Rights Federation. We are the old Pine Lake Surface Rights Action Group. We changed our name early in 2011 when we took over the Red Raven Group, Alberta Landowners Association, and the Big Valley Group.
We are very much involved in CAEPLA with many of our board being members of that group. We have had articles on the CAEPLA website and I am frequently in contact with Jim Ness.
We are in contact with the Ontario Landowners Association and hope to farm a loose "coalition" of all Canadian landowner groups to push the federal government to getting property rights in the Canadian constitution.
Jim has suggested we get in touch with Kevin to run it by him....which is one of those many jobs we just haven't got around to yet!
Please email me at: albertasurfacerights@gmail.com

[SADIE]

ASRG--Great to meet you. Thanks for the email adress and we will connect.

You likely know already the ongoing work being done by CAEPLA.

Back in 2007 & 2008 when DAVE CORE CAPLA President and CEO came to western Canada and organized Manitoba first (Fall of 2007--183members) and traveled the TransCanada line talking to landowners trying to get them organized---and no one would take up the torch. Dave then travelled the Enbridge Corridor and got interest in Kipling and then at the S. Saskatchewan River Crossing at Macrorie and landowners there took up the torch and organized. SAPL grew quickly to 270 members including Alberta Landowners from Hardisty to the Sask border.

The vision that CAPLA explained to SAPL was this movement could never originate out of ALBERTA because of the strong pressure and influence by the Energy Sector through the lond standing Alberta Conservative Governement in all the communities of the Oil related jobs, sponsorships.

This movement had to get to Alberta with landowners. Make a huge impact to the landowners (we needed a huge success story) and when it reached Alberta that is where the Regulatory change has to happen to filter back across the other provinces outside of Alberta.

The pipeline companies ENBRIDGE & TRANSCANADA thought that Sask could never be organized because of the vast distance between pipeline landowners, often absentee landowners who rented out their lands. Things happened --most communities were just coming aboard with high-speed internet, SAPL built a base of email connections. Elderly who didn't know computer email or any other network soon gave SAPL office their Grandchildrens email and that is how SAPL connected, Manitoba followed suit and when the aggressive, corrupt tactics of landagents challanged these areas trying to cut up the membership SAPL remained together.

An unbelievable story. When the settlement agreement was shown on Oct 17 18 19 2007 for membership approval in Wawota, Vibank, Loreburn, Luseland and Rosetown (Distance representing landowners over 1100 kms) by the lawyers from Cohlen Highley (london Ontario) to packed halls ---What a beautiful experience. When the compensation package was explained the emotion was overwhelming. It save farms and ranches that were close to going under.

An experience of a life-time.