Contrasts in Cattle

[ASRG]

A few miles from me there are two farms, across the road from each other.
One guy has these big Simmental type cows (BIG!) and must be calving in February...big solid calves!
The guy across the road has, what I assume are Galloways (the bulls definitely are), and he is calving now.
They are pretty small cows and in pretty good shape.
I don't know how either of these guys market their cattle.
I've often wondered though....how the bottom line pays out on such different operations? Both look like fairly prosperous outfits....so something is paying the bills!
How do you see it? Which system do you think is more profitable? Which system
would you choose?
Myself, I always tried to stay about in the middle.

[smcgrath76]

Hugely dependent on resources, including
operator skill set, labour, pasture
type, other enterprises (crops, etc).
We are closer to the smaller cow model,
but have neighbours on the larger cow
vision. I know that our neighbours will
cash flow more (in most years) from the
same number of cows, but they also
assume more risk ($ invested per calf)
and require the extra cash. This also
means in a down market, their margins
can be pretty slim pickin's. With our
resource base, we would go broke with a
different style of cow. Most of our
neighbours also run a cropping
enterprise, which means that they can
work their machinery off against
something other than just their cows, so
they will tend to have more and newer
machinery lineups.

[greybeard]

I think what Sean is saying is the big cows with early calving are more common with farmers who run cows also. IMHO kind of stays with the philosophy of maximum production that works in cropping. When you pass your COP it's mostly profit.
The smaller more maternal types (regardless of breed) are more common with ranchers who's incomes are less flexible. More of a philosophy of a dollar saved is a dollar earned. They also require less labor per unit, thus more extensive vs intensive production.
Higher cattle prices have sure pushed the prices at bull sales for those high performance Simmi/Char bulls. Also the farmers are well financed these days.
No right or wrong. Whatever fits.

[rkaiser]

And one of the greatest advantages that we have as red meat producers. Choice. There is room in the world for every size and shape of bovine and every size and shape of steak. Read the book Steak by Mark Schatztler; awesome.

[kato]

I agree with you all. The cows should match the situation. That's the strength of the cattle business. You can find a cow that will work for you whether you have miles of pasture and no grain, or whether you have lots of grain and less pasture.

Same with management styles, what works for one may not work for someone just down the road.

[Ruken]

I've had the same question as ASRG. I recognize the dynamics of the large cow vs small cows debate. I have also wondered how a person can keep a cow that's only raised 450 lb of calf after the season is done. I know that by calving later the feed requirement is lower all winter long, and that a small cow eats less but the bottom line is that 450 lb is not much weight to offset any COP against. Even at $1.50/lb. there aren't many pounds to spread the basic costs against.

[Kathy]

Question - Do these guys and/or their wives work off the farm?

Profitability of most ranching operations is dependent upon OFF FARM earned income, or income from Oil and Gas leases.

The true test is whether ranchers could pay ALL the bills with ONLY our "cattle income" (farm income).

If I dare say, there would be a very dramatic shift in population in rural Canada (involved in agriculture) if Off Farm income was not available.

[greybeard]

You probably do see some 460 calves weaned from June/July calving cows but I think 560 is more average for May calves.
Looking at todays market that 560 steer priced in the middle of the range brings about $840. A 850 steer is about $950. The #200 difference is in between that range. If you like calving in the cold dark winter and feeding those cows with calves till green grass for less than 10K per 100 hd you are a lot keener about staying up half the night than I am.
I believe custom grass yearlings are paying about 42 cents/lb/gain. Coincidentally the difference in the price on those calves?

[Ruken]

Kathy, interesting thinking. If you did a survey of the guys in town whose wives are working to make ends meet, you'd find that very few actually make a living off of their town job. If all these families moved out of town, you'd have urban Canada becoming very vacant.
The fact that the wife is working out does not necessarily indicate inadequate ranch economics. It indicates that the family wants to spend more on personal expenses than what the ranch can generate. True, most ranches cannot generate what the family wants to spend on themselves so one parent or both work out as well. No slam against the farm, only a symtom of the times which is the same if you are a rancher, a store owner, a farm equipment dealer or even a banker. Most times the spouce works out too.

[15444]

"The fact that the wife is working out does not necessarily indicate inadequate ranch economics. It indicates that the family wants to spend more on personal expenses than what the ranch can generate. True, most ranches cannot generate what the family wants to spend on themselves so one parent or both work out as well."

Very, very true. Ranchers have been trying to 'keep up with Jones' as much as any one else. Have had the chance to visit many farm operations over the years and the ones who say they need the off-farm income have designed their level of lifestyle around that concept.

One fellow I know that is a single mid-40's bachelor and is fairly sharp with a pencil can't understand why you would need more than 60 cows to make a decent living. He runs well-kept older machinery, a nice herd of 60 predominantly Gelbvieh-RA cows (split spring and fall calving) and has a meager 800 sq ft wood-heated house and one small car, running about 1 section of land. Does landclearing from time to time, fertilizes each year, does his vaccinating and fence rebuilding/repair, and puts in a small cover crop of grain almost every year.

But he watches very little TV (antenna - no satellite), has no Internet and does all of his shopping/banking within 20 miles of his operation. He only makes long trips when he goes shopping for herd bulls in MB or SK. No random excursions or shopping trips to big cities. No vacations or frivolous spending.

Not a religious man. Just someone who wanted to farm and has fit his lifestyle around it and is actually a happy, fairly optimistic person who likes to talk about his operation, and farming in general, in a positive light.

Compare that to another operation that runs 200 cows, has every piece of machinery ever invented to manage a farm operation, has twice as many new vehicles than people to drive them, likes their big spending and annual vacations...but has some serious off-farm income (10k a month).

[ASRG]

I guess like "contrasts in cattle" there are "contrasts in people"!
I guess it's all about what you want out of life? If being a bachelor and concentrating on hard work and the farm works for that guy...then all the power to him!

[rkaiser]

The contrast is very much more about people than cattle. We are the ones fortunate enough to have choice. And that choice is how we manifest our lives.

The only thing I would like to add is that some people also choose to step out and lead. Part of some people have a desire to see a fellow like the fellow with no holidays to have holidays. I always like to say that there are dozens of folks in my area that simply want to feed their cows and go to church on Sunday. Those folks have no interest in heading into the city to market their beef, or even challenge the status quo on an Internet chat site.

For those of you who choose to challenge, keep at er. Whether that's challenging the size and shape of cow, or challenging the politician who is scared of the multinational packer..