Second class citizens?

[mcfarms]

Burnt

took a moment to look at some of your postings on things to help this industry oh wait I don't think there are any. You must be either unwilling to offer positive solutions to sometimes difficult questions and discuss them rasonable or you are unable to think up any other solutions and just attack anyone who does attempt to problem solve, I've known plenty like that over the years usually bitter and unable to compete or so smug and superior in their own self importance they can't deign to talk decently to people. So which one are you?

Funny your all over me because I think Ad hoc programs are not the way to go but all you've offered are barbs and vitriol.

Lets hear your solutions? If you have any.

[mcfarms]

Rookie

I'd like to hear your opinion too then Are Ad hoc programs a good way to allow the market and the industry to function?

[burnt]

Whoa, mcfarms! Why does your industry need help?

Or, if you think it doesn't and yet others are generally experiencing difficulty, perhaps you see the distress of others as an opportunity to grow your own operation since you appear to be impervious to hardship?

I dunno, I don't really care about government intervention one way or the other. In a perfect world there would be no need.

What? We're not in a perfect world, you say?

[mcfarms]

Did you notice BP just had to sell 7 billion of assets wonder why burnt?
But thanks for the no use answer I knew you would not have solutions or a rational point to make just sitting up in your tree chirping away.

I'll ignore you now you offer nothing .

[burnt]

And you just demonstrated the difference between sight and insight.

Thanks for an entertaining discussion. Be sure not to read my posts in the future.

Bye!

[kato]

Who's putting down women? I can't find the offending comment.

Oh well, back to the subject. This is a good thread by the way. It's been a while since anyone actually got riled up and had a good debate around here.

As for ad hoc programs, as burnt said, in a perfect world they would not be needed. Only problem is that we don't live in a perfect world.

Compared to other businesses, the business of farming faces far more variables that can not be controlled compared to others.

Sure BP is in trouble, but why? Because BP was sloppy with it's safety protocols. The troubles they are facing have been caused by themselves, and only themselves. They don't deserve help.

If a cattle producer chooses to go fishing instead of baling hay, and then has no feed, then he doesn't deserve any more help than BP does.

But if that cattle producer is flooded out, then why shouldn't he or she get the same sort of assistance that people in town with flooded basements consider to be their right. After all, what's more important, having someone to produce your food? Or making sure that the extra couch in the rec room gets replaced? I'd go for the food, personally.

If ad hoc programs are not needed by anyone who feels they're financially solid, then they don't need to be applied for. I know people that don't apply for Old Age Security, because they don't feel they need it, so if a cattle producer or grain farmer feels the same way, then don't apply. Personally, we need it right now, so I'm filling in those applications. And I won't fault anyone else for doing the same thing.

And as for burnt not having any solutions or suggestions for helping fix our situation, it just happens that he's working hard getting petitions completed so that we can perhaps get some justice for the BIG problem we all have, that also BTW, was NOT OUR FAULT.

There is no magic bullet to fix things, but if we can at least get some acknowledgment for the troubles we've been putting up with over the past seven years, and some compensation to at least make up for some of the financial losses, it would be a good start.

If not for BSE, we would not be spending millions regaining lost markets. We would not be spending millions removing SRM's. We would not be facing MCOOL at the border. We would not have run the Aggravation program down to the point where it is useless. We would not have the CFIA big brothers standing at loading chutes looking for people to hand out fines to. And we would not be having this conversation, because very likely we would be in the financial position to weather the "normal" ups and downs of the market.

[rookie]

Good morning all,

Got in from a field trip with a crop insurance adjuster. Had some hail damage and since I payed to get the coverage I am getting covered. Its pretty cut and dried stuff, the way I like things.
But if a check comes in the mail from one of these "programs" , I will cash it.

You know , I do have a business plan to grow things , and then make my mortgage payments. But this stuff over the last several years just don't make it that easy. No rain, plenty of hoppers, no prices, cost increases, and no cash...

And no simple answer to fix it for everyone either. Heck, in my neighborhood alone, I see almost no young people starting out, and very few working along side the parents. I am sure we can all agree on this. And why is this ? I think its the lack of return you can expect on what you invest .

There are just so many variables for each and every one of the producers out there that there is no answer for the question of how to fix this industry in order to make a more pleasant business.

There's that old saying about the only constant is change. No ones world from the past exists today, nor will any of ours exist tomorrow as it does today.

I have gone back to work in the oil patch ( because I need more checks in that mail box ) and am reminded daily by seeing my non farming co workers , that the skills, determination , resourcefulness and stamina of farmers and ranchers is anything but second class. I tip my hat to you all for still toughing it out.

First class all the way...

Lets just all stick together, history has shown the odds will be better...

[kato]

Wise words.. Maybe it's time to change your name from rookie?

[rookie]

That was my dogs name ...

[per]

Sorry if I am a little off topic on this I came in late and have yet to read all the posts. I just wanted to comment on Kato's last paragraph.

"If not for BSE, we would not be spending millions regaining lost markets. We would not be spending millions removing SRM's. We would not be facing MCOOL at the border. We would not have run the Aggravation program down to the point where it is useless. We would not have the CFIA big brothers standing at loading chutes looking for people to hand out fines to. And we would not be having this conversation, because very likely we would be in the financial position to weather the "normal" ups and downs of the market."

I think the world has changed and would have changed anyway not withstanding BSE. I know the word traceability conjures up big brother images but if we don't catch up to Australia in this area we will be left in the dust. They now have a in out system that is efficient and effective. In order to reach some of the ignored markets (by us) that they are entering and servicing we need to go down this road or forever be stuck on this continent.

[SADIE]

One basic question Per.

What is Australia doing that they perfected the animal ID. Have you gone over and really looked at that aspect.

I am hearing two different stories on their animal ID.

Are they using the Rumen Bolus?

I hear they have a very tight grasp on "Quality control with RFID companies If they are still using the ear-tag RFID". One mistake and problem with retention ---that company is "booted Out".

When my time slows down I will be re-connecting with Large Animal Veterinary Colleagues likely through the universities to really get a clear understanding on WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Personnally this fall this cow-herd will be back with the metal # 2 Ketchum tag in their ears the same tag that had high retention back in the 60s and 70s. This will be just for our records and permanent ID as these females stay in our own herd.

Back to the hay fields---Inverting hay between the daily rain showers.

[smcgrath76]

I don't think traceability is the
answer, but it may be a small part of
it. How much time and $ will we spend
tracing unknown product that we send to
consumers who don't want it? Outside of
animal health issues at the moment, it
is a complete and total waste of $.
Traceability is useless in the current
format because unless it can be tied to
cattle that produce beef that meet a
specific market demand it is basically .
The way I see the market today is that a
big plant buys on the average and kills
4000 head and hopes that they get 3000
that meet the product they have sold
ahead. The rest we have to get rid of
somehow. Until we start producing
specific cattle to meet specific markets
there is very little chance that
traceability will ever get more $ into
the pockets of the guy on the ground
(packer issues notwithstanding).
I was struck by this in Australia when I
met producers who told me what they did
by the market they served (eg: I raise
Japanese steers). Following around an
unknown product from start to finish
doesn't actually do a heck of a lot of
good for anybody that I can see, without
proper feedback, market development
(actually asking what specs a customer
wants) and targeting those markets. I
think there is lots of room for all
types of cattle and production systems,
but the reality is that we need to know
which cattle fit which markets and how
to make them fit better. Then producers
can figure out their own market to
tackle and how far down the chain into
that market they want to go. We would
almost be interdependent in the industry
at that point (instead of antagonistic).
Basically, we should be targeting
markets and tracing to try to better
serve the market. That would add value
and let the customer actually pay for
the system.