THE CWB, ORGAINIC AND UNREGISTERED GRAIN

[TOM4CWB]

I am taking the liberty of starting a new string as the other one is getting long!

Wedino and parsley, I am sending this to the CWB Board of Directors.

I did not understand Mr. Ritter’s comments on Organic wheat buy-backs quite the same as you did.

I understood Mr. Ritter to mean that Canadian Organic wheat was displacing CWB commercial wheat, and that if Canadian Organic Wheat didn’t sell to the US then the CWB would have a bigger US market for its own commercial wheat. This is the justification for using the buy-back system.

I totally disagree with this CWB justification for charging the buy-back.

1.The CWB does not sell organic wheat, just like the CWB does not sell Pedigreed Seed wheat.
2.The CWB does not market peas, rye, triticale, corn, potato, or a host of other food products that organic grain can have substituted into it.
3.By taking this buy-back strategy, the CWB simply reduces the Organic Wheat Market, and Market dependability of Canadian Organic Wheat, spoiling a perfectly good value added opportunity for Canadian grain producers.
4.The Organic Bread market is a premium market, and not one that the CWB would be able to sell wheat that was commercial into.
5.If Canadian varieties are used for Organic Wheat production, then the CWB may argue that the special intrinsic quality of Canadian Wheat can only be replaced with Canadian commercial wheat of these same varieties.

The CWB’s arguments hold no water.

Many organic growers grow unregistered US varieties, which the CWB cannot market as milling wheat, even if it were sold commercially.

Now we double the CWB does not market issue, they don’t market Organic, and they don’t market unregistered varieties on top, for milling purposes.

The Western Grain Marketing Panel said the CWB should issue no cost export licenses for both of these products and as Organic is absolutely Identity Preserved, it cannot hurt the commercial wheat quality in Canada!

No One in there right mind is going to buy Organic wheat or barley, and then use it in place of commercial Canadian wheat or barley. If they do they will be bankrupt in short order, as margins in the food industry will not accommodate this type of give away.

Again if Canadian Varieties are sooo gooood then US growers can grow them and compete against the CWB if in fact there was a premium for them, which obviously there is not. The CWB has to believe we must just be stupid farmers to swallow these lines of garbage that they keep on spewing out!

Mr. Ritter forgets that not all people eat bread and that other products that are not wheat based are easily substituted for Organic Wheat Food Products.

Obviously the clients of the Organic Wheat Producer easily have enough money to buy a substitution Non Wheat Organic Product, even if it costs more.

The Western Canadian farmer looses big time, with no constructive outcome resulting.

The CWB continues selling high quality commercial wheat using price differentiation as an excuse to give this wheat and barley away at less than market value, and below the cost of production for most “designated area” grain producers.

Therefore I submit that this CWB Organic Policy is absurd, and the high buy-backs on unregistered varieties are again is proof the CWB takes value added opportunities away from Western Grain Producers, to justify and pay for, their Communistic social policy for us.

The CWB simply spoils opportunities to try to diversify our Western Canadian economy, and by retaining these Communistic chaotic principals, the CWB directors as a whole prove they are here to simply take money out of the most innovative marketing savvy “designated area” grain farmer’s wallets.

If the CWB’s actions can result in anything else, please tell me what it could possibly be?

Respectfully,
TOM4CWB

[CWBRules]

Exactly Tom, excellent post. Why the buy back? It just doesn’t make sense. Until I'm informed otherwise, I’m assuming it’s a CWB money grab. I hope you receive a reply from the great CWB Board of directors.

[Braveheart]

Tom4CWB, the CWB is no doubt worried that if a zero buy back was granted to organic wheat, there would be rush to grow it. If this is their concern, their logic is, as usual, flawed. Organic wheat is not a crop that is "annuallized". There is a 3 year transition period from conventional to organic certification. And while I'm not an organic grower, I know that for organic to be successful, crop rotations are important. So, even if there was a substantial growth in the number of organic growers, the tonnage leaked from the CWB's precious pools would be miniscule.

Most of the current crop of elected CWB directors are so stuck in the staff generated paradigm of control of every and any part of the grain industry, that they fail to respond when an issue like no cost export licenses for organic arises.

But I wonder if organic wheat and barley is a commodity or a product? In most cases it is containerized, often already cleaned, and is not sent through the bulk handling system. (Help please, is this correct?) It seems to me, that because of the certification, primary processing (like seed), organic grain is not a commodity, but a product. While the CWB has jurisdiction over wheat and barley products that are exported, I don't know of buy backs for flour.

Regards,

Braveheart

[TOM4CWB]

Braveheart,

The CWB does not sell flour, but it demands to know what kind of wheat, the grade of that wheat, and then does the buy-back on that basis.

If no grade or class is given, then it automatically reverts to the Canada Feed Wheat buy-back which costs the most, all the time.

This is the essence of the monopoly, in reality.

I believe most organic shipments are in containers, and they should be considered products instead of a commodity, because they are generally not avalible in large bulk quantity, and are sold basis a represntive sample of a lot of product rather than a CGC official grade.

This is why the CWB has such difficulty dealing with organics, they don't understand the market, and veiw it as an undermining of their system.

Hopefully the CWB directors will understand that there is no way out of this one, besides a no-cost export license!

[TOM4CWB]

Braveheart,

Can Freedom be Killed?

We had an old dog, which was deaf and got run over a couple of days ago.

My dear wife took her too the vet, it was very sad.

This old pet had bad arthritis and a tumour in one of her legs.

The accident paralysed her back quarters, so what were we supposed to do?

The only humane thing to do was????

Years of pain ahead for this old friend?

Years of us feeling this pain!

For what, would this Border collie ever enjoy life as she was born to?

My Wife didn’t even phone me, she just did the right thing. The Old Girl is now free.


There is a saying that we should not judge until we have walked a mile in our brother’s shoes.


I am Pharisee #1 in our Passion Play, Love According to John.

I am one in charge of crucifying Jesus.

It does not matter that Jesus and his followers are right, telling the truth, and nice people.

The law as the Pharisees and Priests have known it means Jesus and his followers are wrong, no matter how right they are.

The fact that we the establishment are not obeying the spirit of the law does not matter!

So my Duty and Job is to see that Jesus killed.

It is expedient for our establishment and the law as we understand it, that One Man die, for the People, so that the whole Nation (our established way of life) does not perish!

When Pilot sees that Jesus is not guilty, we don’t care enough to change, he must be crucified.

Our establishment and power structure is more important to us than doing what is right and truthful.

We tell Pilot, that if he doesn’t get rid of this Jesus, that he will not serving Rome, and we will get rid of him instead!

Because of greed, and love of his establishment, Pilot puts Jesus to death to save his own position.

What good did it really do?

Our establishment is completely destroyed some years later.

Destroying Jesus proved nothing, other than proving we had the power to do it!


You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Now to the point of this Topic:

The real truth cannot be destroyed, or changed. It is the essence of Love.

I have faith that Love will conquer all!

To the people in charge of the CWB, I do love you personally; I just don’t love the things you are doing to western Canadian grain producers!

Would I be doing what was right and truthful, if I told you you were nice people doing nice things?

Can the CWB change and reflect the Spirit of the law, so it doesn’t end up destroyed?

OR,

Is the CWB so far gone that it must be put out of its pain and suffering, so Western Canada can be free?

Happy Easter, All the best to everyone!

With Love
TOM4CWB

[Vader]

It has been said that the CWB has discipline in its marketing and that discipline creates premium markets. One such premium market is the United States. The CWB feels that its marketing discipline has created premium prices in the United States and it is unfair for producers to "cherry pick" in the US market those premium prices.

Could anything be more ridiculous than for the CWB to claim that it is responsible for the higher prices that exist in the US.

Once you accept that the CWB is responsible for the premium prices in the US then all other logic flows from this mistaken assumption.

Yes Organic grain commands a premium over conventional grain. If the organic producer goes through the "buy back" then he will still be able to get the premium which organic grain commands over conventional. Through the "buy back" mechanism the CWB will extract the premium which the CWB has "created" over the domestic price.

All this makes perfect sense if you can swallow the "big lie" that the CWB single desk selling discipline "creates" higher prices in our so called "premium" markets. This might be true if the CWB had a selling monopoly and was the only marketer of wheat in world markets. However the truth is that the CWB only has a buying monopoly here in Canada and that does not give the CWB the ability to produce higher world prices. What the CWB buying monopoly does is to force Canadian producers to accept the average selling price for wheat sales into some 70 countries worldwide. The apparent reality of this system is net final payments to producers that appear to be consistently lower than the prices available to our neighbors to the south who do not have a "buying monopoly".

[TOM4CWB]

Vader,

What is even harder to swallow is that if I grow a US variety of wheat, that the CWB does not market, somehow when I sell that premium US product to the market it was intended for, that I owe the CWB for this value?

1. I grow US wheat, the CWB grades it feed when it is not.

2. The CWB then somehow says they are responsible for a premium they did not create.

3. The US market for the last year has been blamed for holding down world wheat prices, because of high US stocks of wheat.

4. When I sell Canada's highest quality wheat into the US market, the special product that is the supposed premium wheat product worldwide, then the CWB pays me to export this special wheat out of the pooling accounts, just to rid the system of it!

I cannot reconcile what the CWB is doing, and cannot believe for a second that the CWB Act is actually authorising these actions, can you?

[parsley]

One producer stated that he was talking to an American company and that company gets what they call "Preferential Buybacks" from the CWB.

They aren't available to everyone. The CWB appears to be very pliant. Buyback granting appears based on whether the CWB approves of the company requesting. But preferential buybacks are handed out. (We know they give $0.00 licenses to the feed mills)

They crank up the Organic Joe's buybacks so high, it stops the sale dead in the tracks.

Who authorizes prefernential buybacks? Do the Directors even know about them? What staff does the issuing?
Parsley

[Braveheart]

Parsley,

With regards to buybacks: While many people choose not to believe it, the CWB sales people are commercial traders. They are no different than a trader at a grain co's trading desk. As such, they are open to negotiation. When you seek a buyback, the best price is obtained by getting the trader on the phone and negotiating the best deal you can. Our experience has been that a much better arrangement can be struck this way.

But remember, these people are "traders". A trader has a different mindset than the average person. Their job is negotiate the best terms for their firm that they can. They live and die on the "deal".

The frustrating part (besides having to do a buyback at all) is that you are then forced to go a grain co for the administrative part of the buyback. Your buyback price becomes visible and known to the grain company. If a good deal has been negotiated, then, and we've had this happen, the grain co starts screaming that we got a better deal than they were offered.

There just has to be something legally wrong with me having my sensitive commercial information exposed to grain companies, plus, making me pay an administrative fee for the privilege of exposing this info.

Regards,

Braveheart

[TOM4CWB]

Braveheart,

I am amazed that someone else was offered a lower buy-back than the posted CWB schedule.

I was told in a court document that I was making up the fact that the CWB offered me a special deal.

It is a shame that the CWB was not voluntary, because then negotiations like you pointed out would be the normal way of doing business.

The sad part is that well negotiated buy-backs mean that a statutory error is occuring!

What is the difference between the price inside and outside Canada?

If the price inside and outside Canada is the same, then how can an applicant recieve a benefit from the export licence?

If a buy-back nets a farmer pool returns from the pooling account, how could this possibly come from Part IV CWB Act authority?

I wonder, when will this all catch up with the CWB?

[Braveheart]

Tom4CWB,
You'll love this, the best buyback prices we were able to obtain were on unregistered US varieties of wheat and barley.

In your case, it wouldn't be the first time a court document in Canada or anywhere else, contained false information.

Regards,

Braveheart

[parsley]

Braveheart, you say,

"the CWB sales people are commercial traders. They are no different than a trader at a grain co's trading desk"

I disagree, Braveheart. Commercial traders can quote any price, they can negotiate, they can quibble. If I don't like the deal, I walk away and go down the street. Quite a few traders.

On the other hand, there is only one export license door. The CWB has a judicial responsibility to issue export licenses. That is their duty. They are the only game in town that provides an export license. I cannot go elsewhere.

The CWB "traders" are not true traders,.... working on a commission with a stake in the results, or with even an obligation to get the highest price. They are government employees that have a responsibility to issue export licenses. And the CWB can buy or sell grain for what it thinks is reasonable. If the buyback for Rockpile is $0.02 and the same buyback at the same time for the same product for CWBRules is $3.00, that is what is supposedly acceptable. If they deny CWBRules a license, it is supposedly acceptable.




The CWB can can show favoritism with buybacks...... with no accountability...and they do.....they can favor SWP over UGG and who can prove anything? There is no accountability. If Employee X in the Buyback Department gets a nice trip ....in appreciation, mind you....from Corporation Y, but Corporation 0 doesn't offer goodies, would it make a difference in the price of the buyback? More specifically, who has the right to check?

The CWB can favor Creston -Wyndell over RedDeer and they did.
They gave Creston farmers free export licenses.
" " feedmills " " "

But this granting and denying is very discriminatory. And the employees at the CWB have taken it upon themselves to rewrite what the Act allows. Do you still think they are "traders" Braveheart?

Parsley

[parsley]

When discussing buy-backs, its important to not tie the buy-backs to the references in regulation 14(b) to the prices inside and outside Canada. They have nothing to do with each other. Ontario and Quebec farmers are equally under regulation 14(b) and since they don't pay a fee to the Board, there is no difference between prices "inside and outside Canada".

The point is, as prairie producers, you are denied a licence. Therefore the only practical choice you have is to sell to the Board. You can then become a grain trader by buying your grain back from the CWB. Ownership and possession are not the same thing. You retain possession of your grain, but there are two legal changes of ownership. You sell as a producer and buy as a dealer.

The difference in the buy-back costs is based on the CWB selling price to you. The important thing to remember is that it is legally their grain, and they can sell it for whatever price they choose. If they think it is "reasonable" to sell at different prices to different individuals they are perfectly within the Act. It is secretive and arbitrary and the buyers only know what they themselves had to pay .

Farmers tend to share their buy-back information and companies tend not to. In the case of organic grain, the farmers complain about the high costs of buy-backs; the companies don't. Even though the CWB does not market organic grain, it has a powerful tool to tilt the playing field, and no one even knows.
Parsley

[parsley]

I formally request retracting the 18 April posting in this thread along with an apology to Agri-ville, SWP, CWB and UGG if they should have concerns.
The following day's 19 April posting about buybacks may serve this thread better as it is written more clearly.

Parsley

[wedino]

No need to retract, Parsley. I agree that the cwb favors Sask Pool. AC Navigator, a SWP variety, was licenced when it is not visually distinguishable from other varieties of CWAD. It appears that catastrophic problems can be expected if it is mixed with conventional durum.

PS: Why can't I open the "Question Farmers are asking" page in Grain Matters on the CWB site?

Later........Cam