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    Any suggestions welcome

    I am going to turn this thing loose a little premature. You will read about it in the news shortly, but I would like opinions from some of my mentors on this site and yes that includes you my farmers_son freind.

    Celtic Beef Organization (CBO)

    “CBO” would be a “non profit” organization designed to allow producers a structured market for High Quality, Naturally Raised, Celtic beef cattle to the wholesale beef level.

    Agenda items for foundation meeting -

    1) - Good Business Principles. Not only honesty and integrity, but also sound and structured business principles. All transactions within the organization will be 30 day accounts. These transactions include cattle purchases, feed purchases, and processing to the wholesale beef level. Each individual taking part in “CBO” will be solely responsible for his or her own business transactions and will act according to these guidelines.

    As of March 10th discussion between potential members includes the following points in italics under each section.


    1) People are the foundation of any business – must have people of good character involved in business. Good Honest Hard working People.

    We now feel that payment should be according to “normal industry” standard practices of 2-3 days.



    2) - The only financial consideration of the Organization would be a levy on each animal transaction, paid by the seller, and all of these funds would go toward promotion of the Organization.

    Suggestions – ½% to 1% or a flat rate of $5.00 per head. This fund would not only help the producers but would help the retailers and marketers to grow business.

    2) - Discussion has not altered this original proposal and this decision will be final on March 17th.

    3) - Price structure. All the figures used in this section are “for example only”. All premiums are open for discussion but will be set in the CBO framework prior to a final written CBO business plan.
    A) Calf Price B) Yearling or Feeder Price C) Finished Cattle Price D) Wholesale Beef Price


    We have all attempted to look away from conventional market pricing without success. My suggestion would be to structure our pricing around the conventional market; with premiums attached a various levels.

    3) - Most of the discussion on this topic involved premium to cow calf producers. These members would have the least risk and would actually benefit in a “Whole Herd” way by using the sires chosen to represent the Celtic Beef Model. That being said, this producer still deserves a portion of the profits beyond involvement at the “Brokerage Shareholder Company” level. A suggestion that this premium will be derived from the demand for premium Celtic calves as feeders see profit in the upper end of the program. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally see a “trickle down” approach in the Beef Cattle Industry in this country. So far – 15% on feeder cattle – 20% on fat cattle - 25% on boxed “Cattle Pack” Beef.

    4) – The members of CBO who have chosen to feed cattle to finish or slaughter cattle for wholesale will manage these two inventories.


    Suggestion – All inventory numbers, both feedlot and if need be, beef inventory will be available to all marketers on a show list. Allowance could be made for orders taken off this show list, for marketing schemes such as the current Canadian Celtic, or Aunt Marty’s programs. It is likely that only a small number of CBO members will be involved after the fat cattle stage. CBO will allow these members to help each other to market product without fear of competition.

    Supply and demand will drive CBO in this loose knit organization where inventory will be all that holds back any new marketing schemes, which will ALL be encouraged. This will allow opportunity for all of us to work together on marketing beef; which is the main goal of CBO, beyond producer level profits.

    4) – Little or no feedback on this issue. I would assume that this can only mean agreement, but the meeting will tell the story. Sounds like members support a pricing structure that would affect any and all interested marketing schemes on a level playing field.

    5) – Cattle Standards
    Branded Celtic Beef. Breed specific to Galloway, Highland, and Welsh Black (DEVON). Quality animals with no specific requirements other than a Quality sire from one of the preceding breeds.

    Individual identity to birth. A record will be kept on each and every animal in the program by each individual CBO member. All cattle to have RFID age verification ear tags and records.

    Cattle that fit these standards will be acceptable for CBO, but this does not hold a producer or a buyer back from specifying his or her own purebred breed or combination of crosses within the program. Identity of the cattle from birth will help both producer and marketer to select cattle and beef.

    Producers will be encouraged to participate in EU protocol, but it will not be a requirement of the program like RFID, Age Verification, and complete records from birth.

    5) – It’s seems that the E.U. certification requirement is no longer simply suggested but encouraged. E.U. protocol for tagging must be adhered to, but discussion over “range of birth weights” to allow large ranches less management will continue.

    Standards to date for sires are registered or DNA accepted sires of the breeds listed, which now includes Devon cattle. More breeds may be accepted as time and growth continue, but discussion has mainly involved quality control and nimble individualism to set our product apart from programs that will undoubtedly follow.

    Standard for carcass animal Dams will include no more than 50% continental on the Dam side with preference to an all British cow herd. British cattle have become somewhat similar in type to many of the continental breeds in the past number of years and limiting the cowherd any more will simply limit growth of the program.

    Sires will have stringent rules. Suggestion thus far include Ultrasound measurement to include minimum 4 marbling score 60% lean meat yield, 1^inch2 per 100 lbs. rib eye, with no limitation for back fat due, in part, to the under twenty month rule. A.I sire limitations include even more stringent standards. 4.5 marbling – 65% lean – 1.1^inch2 per 100lbs. rib eye and again no limitation for back fat. Frame scores for the bulls have been discussed, as size will not only affect production costs but carcass quality as well. Frame score 4.5 to 5 have been suggested with “4” frame score A.I. sires.




    6) – Feed and Feedlot Standards
    Feedlots selected and suggested by members who choose to finish cattle.
    No added Hormones.
    No Antibiotics once cattle are on finishing ration.
    No rumensin. Suggestion – Yeast for “ionophore like” rumen activity.
    Maximum 70% barley finishing ration.

    6) – The main focus on this point has been market differentiation. High (or Conjugated) Linoleic acid and some of the other health benefits of Beef have been eroded due to the high barley content in fed cattle rations. Natural Feed additives are being explored by Cam Ostercamp and suggestions are being considered, and welcomed concerning barley content in the finishing stages.

    7) – A seventh point has been added to include the crucial “Inventory Scheduling Process”. Darcy Gooderich, our inventory specialist, is working on a spread sheet to accommodate this item.


    I would ask that each of you make suggestion of how this program could work and not what is wrong with it if you are planning to come to this meeting. This meeting is about going forward, not looking back or finding roadblocks. The major points in the plan are very simple, and I for one want to keep it that way. If another major point needs to be added; so be it. Write that point down and bring it along to the meeting. The meeting date to be set once each person on the following list has had a chance to read these notes and decide if he/she wants to attend.
    Randy Kaiser

    – Paul Froeler – Dan Mohan – Bruce Skocdoploe family – Scott Campbell family – Darcy Goodrich - Wally Foremsky – Darcy Meuller – Ted Ford

    – The list has grown to include our export marketing professional David Bowman, and the following list of folks which includes any and all family members wishing to participate.

    – Paul Gutteridge – Brady Wobeser Family – Layton Bezan – Kevin Forwood – Jason Roach – Mike Drake – Doug Fraser – Cam Ostercamp – Darcy Boese – Craig Van Stryland - Ken Aylesworth and an export rep from the Ranchers Beef Plant at Balzac Alberta

    An introduction to the Beef Brokerage Company will follow Lunch at 1:00 p.m on March 17th, 2007

    The CBO structure meeting will begin at 10:00 a.m. That’s 10 in the morning for us rednecks who don’t use the a.m. p.m. thing much.

    Thank you
    Randy Kaiser.

    Can’t get a song out of my head these days. Have you ever heard the song called “Don’t cry for me Argentina”? Well the line I have added goes something like this. “When we punt you and your new Tyson Plant out of Europe”. All the best everyone.

    #2
    Sounds interesting Randy. Where is the meeting?

    Comment


      #3
      At my new house with the big green roof on March 17th. Getting the irish picture yet?

      Comment


        #4
        Randy I sent you a pm over on Ranchers.net-give it a read if you don't mind. Are the Campbell's going to be able to get to your meeting?

        Comment


          #5
          Randy, thank you for trying to open up some new markets for Canadian Beef. It may only be a "drop in the bucket", but when you combine all those drops, we may finally see a difference. If the Americans don't want our cattle, eff 'em.

          Anyway, a couple points I wanted to address. Since I'm one of those mental midgets who insists on calving in the snowbanks, I won't be able to get near the meeting, but perhaps you'll want to address some of these points:

          1) I disagree that the cow/calf producer takes less risk. Many cow/calf producers retain ownership for longer than the feedlots do. In the case of backgrounders, much longer than the feeders do.

          2) Why limit your cow/calf and feeders to just Welsh/Galloway sires? Why not make the restriction 1/2 Welsh/Galloway from either the dam or the sire side. I don't have issue with the carcass requirements of the sires, but to limit your producers to Welsh/Galloway sires seems like it would limit your program somewhat.

          Where I'm coming from on this: I believe one of the strengths of your breed of animals is in the winter hardiness of the animals. So, as a cow/calf producer, I'd want a whole raft of those easy keeping Welsh or Galloway cows, but would want to cross breed to something that may not be as easy keeping. I'd get my heterosis, and the program would still get the carcass benefits from the Welsh/Galloway cow.

          3) The near future (next 10 years or so) of feedlot feeding is going to be DDG. While Cam's doing his research, make sure he takes a close look at this. I don't believe a "traditional" feedlot will survive the next few years without utilizing DDG as part of the ration.

          I don't think I really saw anything else that left me going "WTF were they thinking", but I'll let you know.

          Rod

          Comment


            #6
            Another thing: Inventory control

            At times when there is an excess of supply in the system, how will you determine who gets to deliver?

            Rod

            Comment


              #7
              I read your proposal and comments carefully. I wish you well.

              There is always a lot of hope and excitement any time we attempt to try something new. The one thing most often overlooked any time a new organization is formed is the exit strategy. How can participants get out if they so choose and what happens if the organization as a whole decides to discontinue. Typically these organizations gather some equity, even if it is brand equity and some means needs to be considered on how to deal with that equity if participants leave of the org is discontinued. If this is discussed and agreed upon up front it will go a long way to ensure the participants can still speak to one another down the road.

              Comment


                #8
                You and I have had business launching discussions at length in the past Randy and while I think it is formidable for you to be asking for suggestions, you know my opinion on this is as strong now as it ever was...
                You have what it takes, business suceeds or fails almost entirely on management. Offering the right product, finding the people that might be interested in your product, presenting it in its best light but always being careful to not misrepresent. Financial management and the marketers themselves I find are almost entirely at opposite ends of the thinking process and when they don't see eye to eye the building collapses. It's tough being the brains of the deal AND all the flunkys at the same time doing the work that ultimatly determines sucess or failure. Very very seldom can one do it all but usually the ones that are able to be all things to all people will be the best managers to deligate the responsibilities to persons best suited for the various rungs of the business ladder so to speak.
                If anyone has the energy and the will to accomplish this Randy, it would be you and I believe in you wholeheartedly to get the job done.
                My one suggestion is though it is really easy to just dive in, think products sell themselves, at some point and for any number of reasons if and when they don't...
                have ALL the details ON PAPER (for yourself, so you don't lose focus, for your customers, so they don't lose faith, for the shareholders so they don't lose their shirts and ultimatly for the lawyers so you don't lose yours.)
                Details on paper. Everybody hates details until they really really need them. Get them up front. Just my opinion. Thanks for asking for it. Good luck. Thanks for reading. Have a good day all.

                Comment


                  #9
                  rkaiser,
                  I'd be interested if there was room for one more red breed! I'll await my invitation LOL!

                  Points:
                  I would set a higher levy maybe $10 flat rate - you will need the money. It's still way less than buying into a slaughter plant proposal and is for the common good.

                  I'm not clear on the “range of birth weights” to allow large ranches less management will continue." discussion - I assume this is meant to be range of birth dates?? if so I don't think you will get into Europe with a niche quality product without having individual birth dates. Cheap crap from anywhere in the world can get into Europe but not a better quality product without comparable records to home produced beef.

                  I would prefer no antibiotics - period, keeps it simpler and more honest. Weather and climatic conditions in Canada allow for less use of drugs as opposed to Europe with damp and pneumonia problems. This is an increasingly valuable production protocol in my mind.

                  I'm no feedlot ration expert but I know some of the top producers of Luing beef in Scotland for the commodity market feed cattle from weaning to slaughter on grass silage plus a barley/DDG ration. They kill 700lb plus carcase at 16-19 months and the maximum grain ration (incl. DDG) is 11 lbs/day. I assume this is a lot less than a 70% grain ration? These are forage breeds of cattle - Learn to feed them as such rather than as "grain hogs".

                  I would disagree with the poster who wants a 50% calf by merit of it's dam included - as an example Char x Galloway beef gets away from the type of beef you are aiming for. I would prefer to see the beef 75% minimum of the breeds you select. You need uniformity of type.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "I would disagree with the poster who wants a 50% calf by merit of it's dam included - as an example Char x Galloway beef gets away from the type of beef you are aiming for. I would prefer to see the beef 75% minimum of the breeds you select. You need uniformity of type."

                    Perhaps I misread Randy's original post, but it sounded to me as though they were looking for 50% calves, but only if that 50% were from the bull side. If thats the case, what would be the difference between a calf that was 50% from the dam or 50% from the sire?

                    Rod

                    Comment


                      #11
                      OK, Rod I didn't make my point clearly. I think 75% blood would be a better idea because at 50% you can get quite the variation in calves. But if the bulls are being tested before use for backfat, marbling etc I guess that would rule out undesirable types of Charolais or Limo bulls anyway? I think 3/4 British blood calves with sires either being ultrasounded, linear measured or DNA tested would provide better consistency.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just an afterthought Randy that won't make you any money but a thought just the same. Don't cry for me Argentina was one of my dad's favorite songs. Wished you two had spent more time together. He thought you had some neat ideas. Have a good day all!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I understand now where you're coming from GrassFarmer. As for the 75% British, I tend to agree with the consistency statement, although it may limit the number of cow/calf guys who wish to participate. I'm not sure about Alberta, but within Saskatchewan, we have a fair number of guys who swear by exotic cross calves, simply because of the growth.

                          Rod

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Swear at or swear by lol. I just found out today that the practice cows and the practice bulls for the rodeo deal here had a clandestine meeting in June. I really hate having calves now even when things go good lol.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks for the comments folks.

                              Exit strategy for shareholders in the Brokerage company is certainly being looked at farmer_son, but I have only presented the CBO non-profit structure to you so far. The Brokerage company is a separate entity. The way out for a CBO member is the commodity market. Don't think we will have too many bailers; do you?

                              As for you Whitey - you just cuddle up to the wonderful young husband of yours and quit thinking about the what ifs. And thank you very much for your support. If you need any help with your real estate venture - don't be afraid to ask this board. The minds that float around on here are not just cattle minds, but business minds first.

                              Grassfarmer - Would you please accept my own personal invitation to our meeting on the 17th of March. This meeting is not simply about cattle, but about people as well. I do believe that the Luing breed would fit well in the program, but believe even more that you and your Luing partner in crime would be an asset to our organization. I was talking about Mr. Church there grassfarmer. As far as the meeting is concerned - we are inviting all of our better halves, and that partner of yours is more than welcome as well. Cheers I will call you later.

                              Thank you Mr. Wilson for the heads up, and the support. Good luck with your clandestine calves.

                              As far as the discussion on breed association. Part of the reason behind the Welsh Black - Galloway - Highland - Devon and Luing cattle breeds is marketing. I know that the cattle breed has less to do with a quality carcass than structure and cartilage composition, however breeds like Angus, Hereford, and dare I say Shorthorn have the organization size to do something like this on their own. Take our plan to the Shorthorn group Diamond, and tell them how it could work for them. The E.U. is a huge market and we will not even begin to satisfy the orders once we hit the beaches of the Continent.

                              Thanks for your input on Dam percentage etc. It led to me adding a few suggestions for our meeting. I will propose that the dam be a maximum of 1350 pounds and her frame score to equal that of our sire restriction of 4 -1/2 to 5. Of course this condition will be based on honesty of the rancher, but the size of his carcass will determine if he has been truthful or not. 1350 will also be suggested carcass maximum, while over size carcasses will have to stay home for our domestic market. Too many oversize carcasses and the member will be warned to shape up or ship out.

                              Thanks again everyone
                              Randy

                              Comment

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