Farmcorp

[chas]

Your thoughts please on this organization to gain market power.

Website www.farmcorp.org type it into you address bar as it will not come up from a search.
I'm going to attend a meeting next week and would like some opinions before I go. Chas

[freebird]

Chas, it's for suckers that will beleive that the big bad corporations are preying on us poor little farmers, and all we need to do is band together to gain "market power" - the same idea that's behind the CWB and the SWP.

But, like the SWP, at least they're not going to throw you in jail if you don't deal with them.

[charliep]

Is this group related to Focus on Sabbatical? I find it interesting that everyone wants to focus on wheat. Wheat is the fundamentally friendliest crop going into 2001/02. Any factor that impacts crop production in a major wheat producing region will send prices higher.

[parsley]

Chas, one of the things that Farmcorp should have as an assett, would be member farmers' voluntary production estimates. At the present time, there is Federal legislation in place that requires farmers to provide seeding and storage information to Statistics Canada. In turn, Stats Canada sells this information to Companies on CD roms. Fertilizer, chemical etc. Of course, this is very valuable information....your information Chas.......and you have no control of it at the present time.....and for which you receive no compensation. Would you think this also has to change?
Parsley

[ianben]

Hi Chas
I have read through the farmcorp site and find I can agree with most of the facts and goals. Really what I have been trying to say here myself.
However I am not sure of the commitment of the organizers.
Why do they need all those $100
Why does it only appear to be in Sask.?
Only promises for Alb. Man. and no plans at all for rest of world.
I fear this is just a get rich quick plan exploting desparate farmers.
Which is a pity as it will make it even harder for a genuine solution to be sucessful.
I will look forward to your opinion after attending a meeting.
Ask what their plans are for the UK if you get the chance
Regards Ian

[ianben]

Hi Parsley
I agree this imformation should be confidencial it should be trade secret.
This is what I was trying to get at about the CWB market report.
When I can find a list of how many unsold combines JD etc. have around the world. Then I will believe we should be giving out similar information for free.

Regards Ian

[parsley]

Hi ianben,
Is it compulsory in England to submit your seeded acerage etc to government statisticians? Do they sell the information?
Parsley

[charliep]

Parsley: A comment on your ideas about your comments about Statscan reports. As someone who did research, grain companies/agri-business have tremendous market intelligence. There are a lot more ways to gather market information than asking farm managers directly. An interesting comment is that official government put farm managers on an more even basis with private information. It is also more disciplined in approach and likely more accurate. Information gathered in a disciplined manner based on survey principles is an important part of the pricing process.

[parsley]

"An interesting comment is that official government put farm managers on an more even basis with private information."

Translate, please charliep,
Parsley

[ianben]

Hi Parsley
Yes it is compulsary to give the government this information
We must fill in forms in June and December giving full details of our operation crops livestock employees sometimes even tractor and machinary numbers. The question vary from year to year.
Individual figures are confidential.
Overall results are published, this is how I know how many farmers left the industry last year.
We also have to give seeded acres livestock numbers to EU in order to recieve subsidy payments. Although not stricty compulsory it is impossible to farm without payments.
I am not sure they sell them but they are freely availible to all and sundry.

Regards Ian

[AdamSmith]

Chas, Why are you so hung up on needing to CONTROL the price of wheat or anything else for that matter? You seem to beleive others are deliberatly controling the low prices of today, and that's bad. Why is it your control or "farmer" control is good?

Should the price of wheat be controled one day, what would that price be? $4/bu., $8/bu., why not $35/bu. Since this new structure would be able to control that price why not aim high. How will you know what the proper price is? I know! Cost of production plus a profit, but who's cost of production? Yours? Mine?
A beginning farmers?, An established farmer?, A farmer with Three 400hp tractors or one with one 70hp tractor? All these things have to be considered in order to make this thing work.

Who sets the price? You can't have supply and demand setting the price because those things fluctuate and if supply and demand fluctuate, price will have to fluctuate to either encourage production or discourage production and it seems to me that a whole bunch of people including yourself are trying to eliminate that. You can't control production. Sometimes it rains, Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it freezes, Sometimes it doesn't.Sometimes disease hits, Sometimes it doesn't. Alot of things can happen to effect the world production of grain.

What do you propose should happen if some bad seeds out there figure out how to grow wheat or a wheat substitute for much less than all other farmers and they find a demand for their grain and sell that grain for less than the controled price? Jail?, Fines?, something else?

Now that you have figured out who sets that new higher price and how to make sure no one sells for anything other than that price (higher or lower). What happens when every farmer grows all wheat because the price is $8 or $10 bu. but demand falls in half because the consumer can access something as equally nutricious for half the money?

Aren't you right back where you stated from? And you've capitialized all your gains back into your land, machinery etc.

So my Advice to you would be, answer those questions and if you still think there is the slightest chance that the price of wheat can be magicly controlled to suit only the farmer, Go and spend your $100. It's alot cheaper fantasy ride than Disneyland!

[charliep]

Parsley

I was highlighting that public surveys provide information to farm managers just the same as the rest of the industry. Grain industry partcipants do their own surveying/use outside sources but this information is not made available to outside (it is treated as internal market intelligence). This is not to say that information like seeding intentions, production forecasts and stocks reports couldn't be done by private industry but I think it is important that an unbiased source collects and publishes on a consistent basis. Should farmers be paid for providing this information? I'll back away a bit but highlight that this information also has value to farm managers in decision making.

[TOM4CWB]

AdamSmith,

I like your expanation on Farmcorp, It is an interesting idea, that tries to make money from people,(farmers)but really avoids the real issue.

The real issue is how can my farm grow a product that increases the value of my product so the customer and end-user is willing to pay more for my special product.

In with this is, how can I grow this product in a way that gives my management more control over production costs, and at the same time is sustainable in the long run.

If what I do on my farm incorporates these two factors, then I am well on my way to having a profitable farm in all areas of production and marketing!

If at this time I need to have more volume to meet market demand to break into a market, then perhaps the best way is to work in personal relationships with other farmers to cooperatively acheive this need of the market.

Hard work and good timing have always been the hallmarks of a profitable venture. Could Farmcorp be part of the solution in this framework?

[parsley]

Such an unimaginable thought charliep, isn't it......the government not information-gathering..................?

Many farmers want to assume more marketing control. Is information control another facet of farming that needs repossessing.?

Charliep, Information is money, and as you say, "this information also has value to farm managers in decision making. " Yes. But, information-market intelligence...farmers selling information to service industries.... is also money. This is an asset that has considerable dollar value that , at the present time is not available at farmgate.

Government surveys, collected compulsorarily, certainly do, as you say, "provide information to farm managers just the same as the rest of the industry" But the same results could be accomplished by farm -organization (Farmcorp?) run surveys, with that information not only shared by members, but also sold for profit. Of course, the more disciplined Farmcorp's approach to statistical gathering, the more the value.

My question to Chas broached the idea if a farm organization (Chas seems to think one representative farm organization would help to elevate our economic woes....I don't neccessarily concur....) canned the StatsCan legislation,(all members refusing to co-operate), collected the information privately, and used information as not only a tool but an assett, would that be another activity you could see a farm organization taking on?
Parsley

[charliep]

Parsly: Farmcorp could do the survey level work you talk about provided they are able provide an unbiased source of high quality/accurate information. As a comment from a previous life, it is hard to charge for this type of information. Too many people willing to give it away once it is released. Particularly if this is the primary source of grain information that is used both internally within Canada and externally by both competition and customers.