End of the SUV culture?

[grassfarmer]

In Europe the issue of gas guzzling vehicles is being taken seriously in an attempt to crackdown on carbon emissions. The average new car in 2012 will have to emit no more than 120 grams of carbon per kilometer. The voluntary agreement in 1998 by car manufacturers to reduce emissions by 25% by 2008 have failed. To give you an idea of the limits, a 5 door Ford Focus 1.6 litre emits 184 grams per km. A Range Rover Sport V8 emits 376 grams!
A spokesman for European Automobile manufacturers said the proposals would make higher fuel consumption vehicles prohibitively expensive - yeah!, a step in the right direction.

[cowman]

Not too sure how we might achieve that over here? I need that Dodge dually to haul the trailer down the road! Somehow I just don't think a Ford focus would cut it?
I don't think our government is proposing anything like that? Aren't they more about changing the lightbulbs and putting a new filter in the furnace!
The fact is if we all stopped driving in Canada, it wouldn't change one percent of the green house gasses in the world. However I do agree it would make the air easier to breathe in downtown Calgary or Toronto.
We live in a pretty harsh environment and need to use lots of energy. That is just a fact.

[cakadu]

Playing devil's advocate, I wonder if we need to burn as much as we feel we need to. Because our various forms of energy have been available and up until recently at a fairly reasonable price have we gotten used to using what we want to instead of what we actually need?

Cowman, you might need your big dually (and I would question if it is needed year round) but what about all those people in the city who drive SUV's and never leave the city? Let's face it, the SUV has become a status symbol. You won't be taking a Hummer, BMW or Lexus SUV or an Escalade to check the cows any more than you would take it out to 4 x 4 in the bush. Those are for status only.

Furthermore, look at the way people drive now - they are invincible - because they are in an SUV. 4 wheels turning on ice isn't any better than 2.

Our increasing energy consumption is due in part to our exploiting it at a greater pace. We need to use more energy to presumably make more. If what others have posted in the threads on biofuel, we'll need to burn a lot of it just to make the biofuel. What about the energy it takes to convert the bitumen, not to mention the water.

We just recently got back from Europe and the parking fees are moving towards favoring smaller vehicles over larger ones.

Yes, cowman, you are right in that we live in wide open spaces compared to those living in Europe or even the larger cities here in Canada.

If we don't start somewhere, we are digging an even larger hole that we may never get out of and our children and grandchildren never will.

[grassfarmer]

With that attitude Cowman society is doomed. Always somebody else has to make the change. Say we are only a tiny part of the problem so it's not worth us stopping polluting - well guess what it's a cumulative effect.
As for needing dually trucks, I accept there is a need for them but not to the extent they exist currently. I spent a lot of time on highway 2 this summer and I filled my time by counting oncoming pickup trucks and SUVs. On average no more than 3 out of every 10 trucks was pulling a trailer or carrying a load on the back. There were actually more SUVs/SUV types on the road than trucks too virtually none of which were pulling trailers. We have an extremely wasteful society in N America that chooses to drive around in 5 or 6 litre vehicles to transport 1 person. Most of the trips could have been achieved with a 1.6 litre car at a fraction of the cost and polluting affect. I know some folks in Edmonton that run their car in summer and use public transit in winter - a great compromise but there aare a lot more that choose to have monster trucks and SUVs in the city.
In our household we have an older truck that gets used on the farm and pulls a trailer or hauls loads in the back if needed. We also have a light car that does the bulk of our mileage. I'm not saying that is the right or only way to do it but it is a lot more efficient and less polluting than having a truck and a large SUV. It really annoys me to see the farmers wives that drive around the province in their farm plated SUVs that have never had a trailer hitch on them or have never transported as much as a bag of eartags from the farm store. They can do it on farm fuel yet we can't receive it on a fuel efficient car. It's subsidised inefficiency. In the UK the farm fuel rebate was only for vehicles that were never on a public road - by implication just about exclusively tractors.

[WoolyBear]

As long as Canada has gravel roads and snow banks after storms, I will NEVER give up our SUV (Explorer)...... its only got a 3.0L, but we wouldn't last long in the winter with one of those hybrid puddle jumpers. I wonder how those little cars would keep up in traffic on the Alberta Expressways?

[cakadu]

Actually, Wooly Bear, one sees more and more of them on the highways all the time. How do you know you wouldn't last long if you have never tried?

Sometimes I think that these bigger vehicles give us a false sense of security and we will take chances we wouldn't necessarily take if we didn't have them.

Driving for conditions is a big part of making it to your destination safely. When the snow is blowing and there is black ice on the road it is not the time to be driving 120 kmh, weaving in and out of traffic, which is how some still try and drive. Seen it plenty on good old QEII.

There are far more people living in urban, heavily populated areas that have these big honkin' vehicles and one would question whether they actually need them or not.

[cowdog]

Why wait to be legislated?
What are you doing to reduce your farm's CO2 output?
Why be part of the problem when you could be part of the solution?
Here is what we have done:
- reduced tillage and no-till
- preservtion of woodlands and wetlands
- restoration of marginal land to grassland and plant trees
- incorporate the straw you don't need instead of beling it and selling it for a fraction of its value as fertilizer
- use the aproperate sized vehicle for task - don't drive the pick-ups to check cows use quad or if time walk (its healthier) - if the load will fit in the 48 mpg Jetta don't use the 20 or less mpg pick-ups
- choose the appropreate tractor for the job
- shut machinery off if you are going to be stopped for more than 3 minutes
- if you don't need that yardlight turn it off
- isolate and turn off the power to waterers not in use
- swathe grazing
- replace an electrical service for water with a solar one
- and yes we have changed light bulbs in the houses and outbiuldings to compact flourescents.
We can still do a lot more but it takes time and we will.
I don't buy the need for that gas guzzling FUV because you live out in the country with bad roads. There are vehicles equally capable that burn far less fuel. For example my brother who lives north of Loydminister in the hills, works as an operator in the patch drive from well to well all winter in deep snow an drifts in a 35 mpg diesel Dahatsu he spends the least time of any of his co-worker stuck because the vehicle has better wait distrabution and weighs less.
SO TELL ME WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

[cowman]

I wasn't saying we shouldn't be doing anything? And hey I'm about as much of a cheapskate as possible!
What have I done? Good question!
Most of my "energy decisions" aren't based on saving the world but about saving money...just my nature!
I have a outside wood burning furnace that heats two shops/one house. The other house has a super efficient NG furnace...that gets the filter changed regularily!
Probably not very greenhouse friendly but a considerable money saver!
No cattle waterers. Use a hydrant/tank/wood heater for the cattle in the corral. Cows all drink out of springs. Again not eco friendly, but cheap and problem free.
Yard lights on a switch...no dusk to dawn.
Service all vehicles on the farm and use synthetic oil in everything as well as repair/build as much equipment as possible. Save a lot of time and fuel this way...not to mention money!
Actually have replaced all light bulbs, in house with florescents. Not so much cost... just replace them less often.
Decided several years ago that Christmas lights are a totally blatant waste of electricity...besides too lazy to put them up!
The Dodge duallys actually give me as good milage as the 3/4 ton 4x4 gas truck....and can actually haul a 24 foot trailer and 100 hp tractor!..or a 20 ft. cattle trailer or 11 round bales or a 500 gal water tank. And by the way they don't have farm plates on them, commercial plates and only in a pinch might they burn dyed fuel.
I do agree we need some incentives to reduce energy consumption. And usually I have found the best incentive is the old pocketbook!
Maybe have a surcharge on excessive use? So if I want to drive a car over a set limit of horsepower or emmissions or however you measure it then you pay a higher license fee? So a license for a Toyota might be $75 and a license for a Hummer $500? I'm already paying for commercial plates and that is just the cost of doing business on these bigger trucks.
Or how about if you want to put up Christmas lights you pay 3 times the price per KWH than regular lights!
And by the way...I recycle what I can...either in the out door furnace or at my local(and pretty close) waste transfer site!

[cowman]

One more thing I wanted to mention:
My local fertilizer dealer(agrium...oh-oh evil Cargill again!) is trying to set up a carbon credit deal? He's been working on it for a few years and claims it just might fly soon?
Now he's talking $35/acre for pasture..can't remember hayland...and I think $11 for no till cropland! I'm not sure what the procedure is, something to do with soil tests and trying to figure out how much carbon is stored in the soil!
Now if you believe all this carbon credits BS...I guess all us old cow/calf boys are saving the planet!
Maybe this whole Kyoto scam can make us all some money!
Why me and grassfarmer might be living the life of Riley...while you evil polluters pay our bills! LOL

[grassfarmer]

Well done Cowdog, you are a shining example of the type of citizen we all need to become. We seeded all our farmland down to pasture which is highly managed to produce a lot from sustainable resources - the sun, water and soil nutrients. We are in the forage business and we market through a four legged, self-reproducing, bioreactor that we call a cow.
We've done the little things like the lightbulbs and switching vehicles off too. We usually switch our truck off for most of the winter and our tractor off for most of the summer. My legs are a real cheap and healthy way to check cows in summer. We don't have gas powered hobbies - no quad bikes, snowmobiles or motor homes.
To me it always comes back to the land though - the source of all real wealth on earth. I'll leave you with this rather profound quote I saw recently by Allan Yeomans:
An increase of 1.6% in soil organic matter to a depth of 1 foot on the worlds ag/ranching lands would restore atmospheric concentrations of C02 to pre-industrial levels. As graziers, our ability to build topsoil is probably the single most valuable gift anyone on earth has to offer.

[coppertop]

Well, here goes. I drive a big SUV. I haul bags of EARTAGS home from the vet in it, take my cowdog to the vet in it, haul my books to the accountant in it, and all in all use it for most of my business in town with the exception of hauling bags of salt and mineral which I do with my farm pickup, also a 4x4.

Yesterday, I drove to Red Deer, took Highway 22, then Highway 53 across to Rimbey which was icy, snow on the shoulders etc. I watched three little cars get stuck in the Capri parking lot in the snow, and my big old Durango with the $1000.00 set of tires just trucked right on through. Yesterday, is a prime reason why I drive an SUV. I do not need one in the summer to travel, nor the spring or fall, but I sure as heck am not going to buy one more vehicle to insure just so I don't drive the SUV when I don't need it.

I DO have energy efficient kitchen appliances, have replaced all the light bulbs on the place with energy efficient ones,I have purchased stock waterers that are supposedly more energy efficient than the old ones that wore out. I protect the riparian areas on my farm, I do NOT burn garbage or brush piles and pollute the air, but I will not give up my SUV which is, in my view the safest means I have to travel in an Alberta winter.

By the way, I get better milage with my SUV than I do with the Silverado pickup.

[dalek]

Grassfarmer, in Ontario coloured diesel is just for off-road use too. If you get caught running it in a grain truck or livestock truck, they estimate out how many kms you've put on that vehicle in the past 7 years, get the expected mileage from the manufacturer, and calculate how many gallons of diesel you "should" have used from that. If you can't come up with receipts for clear diesel that are close to the same amount, you get to pay back taxes on the difference.

[cowman]

dalek:In Alberta every man and his dog get a farm plate and burn dyed fuel! Vans, jeeps, SUVs pretty well anything goes! Even the cardlocks have dyed fuel!
About once every five years the cops get off their butts and go down to the curling club and round up a few old boys with dyed gas in their cars, but that is about it!

[coppertop]

I have never had farm plates on any of the SUV's I have owned, and don't know of anyone in this area that does. Most of us have pickups as well, and that is the vehicle with the farm plates.

[dalek]

Saw a Hummer a while back with Ontario farm plates. Not much advantage to farm plates here anymore, they're mostly becoming a status symbol for hobby farmers.
Grassfarmer you can get dyed diesel at the truck stops here but only to run the reefers with.