Feeding those cows!

[cowman]

Thought I would bring this up one more time:
My contractor neighbor rented out pasture this summer. $30/month/per cow? That is pretty well the going rate although there are higher total income renting to guys running grass cattle....so $1/day to feed a cow for the summer?
Now you feed a cow in the winter. Say 22 lbs hay and about 12 lbs. straw? Maybe a bit more straw. I think that ration will work well for a mid sized cow?
We landed hay in the yard for 3 cents a pound and valued the straw at 1.5 cents? Maybe that is high?
So 66 cents for hay and 18 cents for straw or 84 cents/day? Now of course you have some sort of cost to feed that, but doubtful if it is more than 16 cents/day?
So bottom line is whether winter or summer...it costs about a $1/day?
Now bare with me here...I'm coming to a point! Actually grassfarmer got me thinking along these lines!
The cow eating your grass, returns a part of what she eats back to the pasture in the form of urine and manure? I think beef today had that pegged at a value of $31? I would assume the cow in winter also returns that $31?
So if you fed in the winter at a total cost of $1 X 182.5 days you would have a fed cost of $182.5 minus $31, or $151.50? You are actually adding $31 worth of nutrients to your land with bought feed? Nutrients that never came out of the land in the first place?
My point is this: Do you really make more money extending the grazing period? Or does it make more sense to eat that grass off earlier and winter feed longer? From an economic standpoint...not from how easy it is or how lazy you can be?

[grassfarmer]

I guess that would depend on the current fertility of your own land and what your objectives for it are Cowman. On a technical note I think your residual manurial values are a little low but in any case I wouldn't count winter manurial values as being equal to summer one as the N losses in winter tend to be so much higher. In summer with wet manure and urine being readily absorbed into the ground after being trapped in contact with grass, you lose a lot less than on frozen winter ground and hard packed snow.
I have never used bale grazing but feel that a lot of it's success comes from the fact that the wasted hay is used as a medium to hold the nutrients the cattle produce and preserve it through till summer. It comes down to the C:N ratio (carbon:nitrogen) which is what you need to pay attention to if you are wanting to preserve or bind nutrients so they do not volatise. We feed silage in bunk feeders which are continually being moved across the pasture but also feed rotary combined oat straw in ring feeders (about 50% of their ration)behind that. We find the straw gets pretty much eaten up but the tougher stuff that gets rejected gets spread out on the land where the cows sit on it and of course add their nutrients. This produces a far greater response from subsequent grass crops than if the cows were only fed silage and the manure left untouched on the surface of the pasture.

[cowman]

That is very interesting grassfarmer. Never thought that through but can see some wisdom there. I'm a great pasture harrow fan but do note that when I don't get some area done by fall the grass is pretty lush around the old straw?
Just wondering if you've ever run into a problem with that rotary straw and silage? The neighbor had a real wreck when he was feeding silage and rotary straw a few years ago. Now mind you the silage was too dry and chopped to fine. I think he lost about six cows through impaction.

[cswilson]

Well with bale grazing other than unloading the semis there really isn't a labour component-we move cows about every week-snow is too deep where bales are set to drive out to so just hook up team or saddle a horse and go out to let them in to next paddock. Right now there's a little over 400 head of cows and calves in that herd going through about $200 worth of feed a day. I don't worry much about harrowing old fed grounds-the grass will grow up through a pretty thick matt of manure-I guess if I owned some equipment it would bother me more. Extending your grazing season makes sense if it makes you money-some guys buy alot of diesel and haul along ways to get out of a months feeding. Were trying late weaning this year and to be honest the cows and calves look great-lots of exercise and good condition on them. We grazed some second growth canola for a month this fall that really licked them up. Cowherds are made to be opportunists no hard and fast regime for profitability as far as feeding-every year is differant-calving later makes you more flexible for sure-don't have to worry about bringing cows into calve in the next month or so.

[cswilson]

Well with bale grazing other than unloading the semis there really isn't a labour component-we move cows about every week-snow is too deep where bales are set to drive out to so just hook up team or saddle a horse and go out to let them in to next paddock. Right now there's a little over 400 head of cows and calves in that herd going through about $200 worth of feed a day. I don't worry much about harrowing old fed grounds-the grass will grow up through a pretty thick matt of manure-I guess if I owned some equipment it would bother me more. Extending your grazing season makes sense if it makes you money-some guys buy alot of diesel and haul along ways to get out of a months feeding. Were trying late weaning this year and to be honest the cows and calves look great-lots of exercise and good condition on them. We grazed some second growth canola for a month this fall that really licked them up. Cowherds are made to be opportunists no hard and fast regime for profitability as far as feeding-every year is differant-calving later makes you more flexible for sure-don't have to worry about bringing cows into calve in the next month or so.

[grassfarmer]

How do you unload and distribute the big bales cswilson? custom basis and if so can you always get someone when you need them?

I know a couple of other guys that claim they run a similar system but if you look in their shops you would see big newish fwa JD tractor/loaders and round balers that they keep to set out bales for bale grazing and bale up some surplus pasture in the wet years.

[cswilson]

I hire a bneighbor to unload for me or rent a tractor-most years they are all placed within a few days. I don't own a tractor at all.