Willowcreek?

[mb_rancher]

Willow-Kreek- If you think things are rosy up here in the beef industry why don't ya come up and giver a try. You ll soon find out that CAIS does not help cattle producers. I have never got a payout from them yet and likely never will. That program works on cashflow and inventory. Right now cull cows are worth $250 here CAIS values them at $500. Bred cows worth $500 now CAIS values them at $875. It all works against beef producer as we all have inventory. As for NISA its long gone.

[Willowcreek]

Mb-rancher--["If you think things are rosy up here in the beef industry why don't ya come up and giver a try."]

I tried that- but your Canadian (Sask) protectionist laws won't allow an American to buy land-even that that joins it across the border- unless you put 51% into a Canadian partners name...And according to Big Muddy- this is to keep Americans with money from buying the land- so it can cheaply remain in Agriculture...

Whats that again about Canada being for "Free trade" and not having subsidies?? LOL

[kato]

Quick fix for that problem. Become a Canadian! Then you can learn what it really means to pay taxes. LOL.

The rule is there for a reason. If it wasn't for that little rule, just imagine what it would be like eh? The land owned by Americans, growing cattle to be shipped to American owned plants in Alberta, and then shipped down to America to be sold in top end restaurants. Pay R-Calf dues with one hand to try and bring in MCOOL, and pay Canadian property taxes with the other hand to raise beef that is exempt from MCOOL.

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Why would anyone in their right mind want to move into our "beef situation"? Cheap land is just fine...but somehow you have to make it pay? And thanks to the shabby way the USA has treated us up here on just about every agriculture product...well you would be better to stay right where you are!
Sometimes I wonder if you R-CALF boys just don't get it? You somehow think MCOOL is going to solve all your problems...or at least you pretend it will...while fully knowing the main thrust of MCOOL is to impede your packing industry from buying Canadian cattle!
What you don't understand is this: You make it impossible for your packers to slaughter Canadian cattle...it will just come across in a box? And it won't be heading for the Safeway meat counter...but to the steakhouses, restaurants, sub shops, and good old MacDonalds! In case you didn't know it our packers up here can probably handle all the cattle now? And yep...thats mostly your two favorite buddies...Cargill and Tyson! Both have expanded!
So when your local packers(well as local as you can get in Montana) go broke because they can't source enough cattle...rest assured you can still get a tasty Alberta steak down at your local steakhouse!
And when you walk into Safeway and check out the meat counter you can buy a roast or steak labelled "Born in Canada, barley fed, slaughtered at High River Alberta"...and know you are going to have a superior eating experience!

[Willowcreek]

Simple cowman- There is no land left to be bought down here at prices that will pencil out on Agriculture prices..Since their are no laws restricting anyone from buying (even rich Canucks) the land prices have inflated above productivity capability...Saskatchewans law pretty much tells me that Canada does not want free and FAIR trade...Its nothing more than a protectionist subsidy for Agriculture- and is just one of many instances where the countries are not the same- as some would have us believe...

And I disagree with you on M-COOL.. M-COOL is being honest with the consumer- and not allowing the packer/retailer to fraudulently pass off meat from Mexico, Uruguay, Brazil, wherever in the world as US Beef..

I spent 30 years in law enforcement- and if they did the relabeling they do with any other product- they would be guilty of a crime...Its just that they have found a loophole in a USDA rule and have the USDA bought out so badly that they continue using it...That needs to be- and I believe will be fixed this next year-- with possibly an even tougher M-COOL than was written (label ALL)....

[WilIow-Kreek]

LOL,bottom line is that you socialists should do what you do best up there.Grow pot and smoke it.Heck your government will probably find a way to subsidise that activity and you can forget about raising cattle to dump on us.Sounds like a win-win situation to me!!

[jensend]

the willow gang is really out today to terrorize all us innocent canadians. lol. try reading this if you want to find out about subsidies:
http://www.billingsnews.com/story?storyid=1691&issue=62
seems the montana free traders aren't above accepting govt. money. it's even a source out of r-calf country.

[WilIow-Kreek]

That article is nearly 5 years old and was written by a fellow who hated farmers in general.He was pulling numbers out of thin air.

[cowman]

Okay. Not going to go into a lot about the "pot" thing...but always there is a buyer and a seller? You are the BUYER and we are the seller? Basic law of supply and demand?...no buyer...no seller?...who is to blame?
On the MCOOL thing...how much of our beef(note I said beef?) is subject to MCOOL? Now don't give me all this BS about how it should be! Give me facts as we see it today?....I would suggest...very little "beef" is subject to MCOOL?
The fact is this: You R-CALF boys see MCOOL achieving one thing? Stopping Canadian live cattle from entering the American slaughter market? Truthfully...that is what you hope?
I hate to tell you this...you missed your opportunity! Your OWN AMERCICAN PACKERS did an end run around you! They have the capacity now! Ship it in a box to the most lucrative market...the American restaurant trade!
Who really cares about the 5% that goes to the supermarkets?...Only R-CALF! Guys you need to get with the program?

[Willowcreek]

Cowman-- I don't think your belief that all of Canada's is going into the restaurant trade is correct...I know that after the BSE and only boxed beef was coming in, we found a great deal going into the local grocery store shelves- where its falsely sold to the US consumers as US beef-- and when questioned about why they don't mark it correctly, the retailer will tell you they would like to, but can't compete until it is all marked- because the Canadian won't/don't have as high of demand...That is one of the things that drove the big push by Montanans as a whole to enact a State M-COOL law.....

And you forget there is a whole lot of beef coming into the US from countries other than Canada- some of which is going straight onto the Walmart counters and being sold as US product...

The consumer is being DEFRAUDED....

And cowman-- I'm not like you- I won't roll over and just kiss the Packers Arse like so many Canucks seem to do-- I'll fight them as long as I have a breath left...Too bad there aren't a few more independent Canucks like Cam and ol rkaiser--then you guys might not have to worry so much about the US cutting you off the gravy train....

[grassfarmer]

Willowcreek this land in Saskatchewan you wish you could own - some of it was growing forage that was trucked south of the border to feed you boys drought stricken cows. Are you in favour or against this trade?
Do you rcalfers fight the noble cause and urge members not to buy Cdn. hay thereby maintaining a high price for your local American hay producers? After all the Canadian product has got to be poorer quality, subsidised stuff eh? Or are you just happy to use some cheap Cdn. imports when they suit you?

[jensend]

w.k.: That article is nearly 5 years old and was written by a fellow who hated farmers in general.He was pulling numbers out of thin air.

well if you've got the correct numbers handy maybe you could share them. my guess would be that in the intervening years federal payments haven't gone down. i wonder if it included the benefit of hay or grazing of crp lands in drought years..but then that's assistance not a subsidy.

[WilIow-Kreek]

sorry jensend...I don't have the current numbers for you.I am just pointing out that you are using old numbers and an article written by Mr Gilles who has shown distain for all things rural his whole career.Your the one using the numbers to make your case so I suggest you find the most up to date figures.Relax,kick back and smoke a joint while you are doing the research.Its the Canadian way eh.

[Willowcreek]

Grassfarmer- I have never bought a bale of Canadian hay-- in fact I'm one of the ones that used to sell hay before the border was opened to the hay produced on thousands of acres of that Prairie Province Program subsidized ground-- that they sold as low as $20 ton in the late 90's-- $25 Ton delivered... Put a lot of good local people that had invested a lot of money in irrigated land out of business or in a bind for a few years...

And don't tell me they didn't get subsidized- because the Canadian hay producers have sat right there and told me how they got paid up to $85 an acre to reseed to pasture and hay....Paid to go from wheat farming to hay and cattle- helping to expand the glut of Canadian cattle coming south...

But when we wanted to expand the place on the border-- and buy the connecting place north of the border-- the Canuck government told us we couldn't buy it, because they had to keep it to more subsidize the poor Canuck farmer/rancher....

I don't consider that FAIR trade....
Just a continuation of the fallacy's involved with this rag they call NAFTA...

[cowman]

I must be missing out on all these wonderful subsidies because I just underseeded 80 acres this spring and never got a dime! In fact I've never got a dime for seeding grass!
Don't know about the price of hay in Saskatchewan? Seems to me it is always dirt cheap there? I do know in the last big drought in Montana the hay buyers were up here buying up everything they could find? In fact they were even buying silage and trucking it south...they didn't care because the US government was paying the freight! How goofy is that?
I think the most shocking thing I heard was 1000 tons of silage trucked to Billings from Ponoka, Alberta!
One thing you R-CALF boys should realize: In Canada we would not have this glut of cattle and hogs if your government hadn't ruined our grain industry! Your export subsidies stold our traditional export grain markets. Your insistance that we end any thing that looked like a subsidy, while you continued to pour them on...spelled the end for the western Canadian grain farmer if he didn't diversify into livestock.
So you screwed our grain farmers and now your trying to screw our livestock farmers!
Well you said "produce something that we need"? We thought you needed our beef and pork...and I think your packers still believe that? But whatever...maybe we need to get back to exporting something you do need...like fuel? Its coming friend! we'll produce as much ethanol and bio diesel as you want! Of course then the crying will start again about evil Canadian grain farmers taking advantage of you poor downtrodden welfare farmers! Maybe you could start R-CORN or something? Or maybe learn to compete?