Where is your money?

[whiteface]

This is a really personal question and no, I don't expect that everyone need to come forward and comment or even particularly pleasantly the ones that do...
but I just so need to ask after reading the irritated tone in grassfarmers post regarding governments favoritism toward multinationals.
I'll try and keep it short.
Multinationals pay an awful lot of taxes and employ a large amount of people...
who also pay a lot of taxes, especially if they are paid well or work many hours as only the case of a thriving business could offer them.
These same people who have good jobs can now afford to buy houses, cars, food, education, employment insurance and health care which again in many cases, a healthy company also pays quite dearly into.
Okay, so you work most of your life, whether you hate your job or not isn't really the point, maybe it's your attitude, but it does keep you alive and off the streets. A lot of companys pay bonuses to thier employees in the form of stocks or "options" some don't but again if your company is in good shape, you try to put a little away for your kids education or retirement. Which leads me right back to my original question.
Do most of you park whatever jingle you may scrounge up at the end of a month, year or lifetime into the market? Beit in the form or RRSP's, mutual funds that you allow some financial expert control, GIC's that will never beat inflation, simply erode your money like a savings account, or this is what I suspect is happening especially here, do most of you have all your assests tied up in your house...
in this case your "farms" which is still your primary residence and where literally most people on the planet have most of their holdings.
At this point I refuse to comment whether good or bad in my opinion and in any event, I think people do what works best for their lifestyle anyway. I'm just curious because I always seem to hear so much animosity towards companys that are doing well. I don't get it. That is what we all stive to do is well, how is it that so many hate the ones that are doing well? I think if you dislike someone doing well you've got your money in a losing enterprise and are resentful because someone found a winning enterprise. Just my opinion. I'm interested to hear others. Have a good day all!

[grassfarmer]

You are right, it's none of your business where others put their money. To think that anyone highlighting the problems in our industry is "hating people that are doing well" shows a lack of knowledge of the subject. This is confirmed by the next statement that I "must dislike them because I have money in a losing enterprise" My enterprise is not losing and it won't be when you move onto yet another hobby. Maybe now that you have given up on agriculture you should post on a board for real estate experts?

[Willowcreek]

I don't know the situation in Canada- but I imagine it varies from area to area and Province to Province, but I can tell you that the best investment down here in Montana has been in land...Either by purchasing more and more or just holding on to what you had- land appreciation has been out of sight. Which is what, if you're not already in an ownership position, made the ability to profit off Agriculture products harder and harder--As now for the last 10-15 years many out of state land investors, tax avoiders, hunters and hunters groups are inflating the prices far beyond what production could pay for...

[cowman]

Whiteface: I think you brought up a very good topic here! We all should be thinking about these type of things?
I will admit I just keep plowing it back into this farm...I know its dumb...I just don't know how come I'm such a retard! It baffles me at times.
I like the stock market but am too much of a chicken to ever go out on much of a limb(I dabble!)! Or maybe have no control over where it is going?
On the one hand I like to think I am a good businessman...but how do you justify that by being involved in any type of agriculture???!
I have come to the conclusion that you have to look at it as a hobby(with benifits!)? It is about the only way you can justify it?

[cswilson]

My kids have their RESP's invested in Mutual Funds and quite frankly they make ALOT more return of their cattle-Ty can make more stock charges packing a few bulls to a rodeo for a weekend than the few thousand he's got in Mutuals makes in a year. I'll risk my kids having enough business acumen in their chosen field to make a living investing in their own knowledge and talents rather than trying to make lazy money in the stock market. The four legged stock market works fine for us at least the last 90 years it has. Those that can do-those the can't try and convince everybody else to give up it seems.

[whiteface]

Grassfarmer I was pretty sure I was going to get the gears out of you...
and really, all arrogance aside, I meet literally thousands of people in a year and have gotten quite good at reading them quickly and with better than average accuracy which worked very well in my favor while I bred and showed purebred cattle, now is working very well in my favor with real estate. I do not for one second profess to be a know it all, although suffice it to say occasionally somebody shocks me, not very often but every situation I add to my data base of learned knowlege. Moreover, what frequently turns people upside down about me is that many cannot even begin to comprehend just how much time I spend and how I absolutly savor simply picking people and situations apart and learning from what obviously is working for some and what obviously is not, then applying that knowledge for my own use. You can hate it all you want, you sure wouldn't be the first or the last person that I irrite the bejeezus out of.
Obviously it is working for some since they are still doing it and have a good attitude with it. Sorry, based on your reaction alone, grassfarmer, I ain't convinced you're one of them and wasn't even before my comments from this morning. Just saying as I see it. The whole cattle thing worked quite well for me too for awhile but as I strive for more and as I said, enjoy analyzing people and every detail along the way, it was time, at least for me and my demands out of life and given the area that I choose to inhabit, to work smarter not harder. That translates into what I have said many times before, right now, right here, people want houses and they want houses because they want the jobs that this area has seemingly no end of and they want the jobs because the jobs buy all the sweet little things in life...
like your organicly grown beef, unfortunatly your meat doesn't "make" people money, it "costs" people money that have to have good jobs in order to afford it...
My reasoning therefore, it that you more than most people should support big business, favor multinationals that provide the jobs for people to afford your ( and don't take this the wrong way, really! ) overpriced meat on your overpriced land, slaughtered by your overpriced packing plant paying overpriced workers that are over educated in an over priced rental building buying overpriced natural gas to heat it.
I know you get where I'm comeing from and I don't demand that you agree with me. My validation has already come in the form of you reacting exactly the way I had predicted which leads me to believe that I am correct on other assumptions as well. Still respect your opinion and am not looking to get into a pissing contest with you...and won't. If you fight with me you'll fight alone, I got better things to do and am not offended in the least with your condescending tone of my leaping from hobby to hobby.
Willow, I sure appreciate your comments of land value appreciation and I do as well watch the U.S. housing and land market quite closely. We vacationed in Kalispell (my husband just loves lakes, even American ones, LOL!) during the entire month of September and I just don't sit still for a minute, he's on his jet ski, I'm looking at properties...
But then, that's the glue that keeps our marriage together, seperate bathrooms, seperate bank accounts and seperate vacations! Even in the same city! I love looking at properties, analyzing growth potential and every city I visit, I'm knee deep involved in land values and job opportunities.
I agree whole heartly, Willow that farmers have been as sucessful as they have based on their land appreciation...
Some of them will be driven right out because of it but then will have tons of cash in the bank and can do sweet FA for the remainder of their life. They earned it, they deserve it and I support that.
Cowman, I'm not sure if you and I think so similary because we probably drink from the same underground water source or breathe literally the exact same air (from the Purina plant just over yonder!) but thanks for your comments and you don't need me to tell you again, but I will, I support that you have your cows for your reasons. I enjoy the cows also and am not giving them all up any time soon. They don't make much if any money but they don't need to. They keep my health in check for billions of reasons and no amount of money in the world can buy back your health.
Have a good day all and thanks for your input!

[cowman]

Whiteface: You are a breath of fresh air in this doom and gloom scenario
called Agri-ville! You go girl!

[rkaiser]

Doom and gloom agriville. Whatever you two - cowman starts another thread about the horrendous price of calves and whitey jumps ship because of it, yet the both of you want to criticize the likes of grassfarmer or even yours truly for challenging the status quo and trying to make life better for our neighbors, our customers, and even most of our critics.
If the two of you think that Cargill and Tyson are just damn good business icons, why the hell don't you join the ranks of the ABP/CCA and jump on the side of the two of them every time they are bashed by the likes of grassfarmer or myself.

Or you could look at the big picture here and realise once and for all the these two giants are just like many more multinational companies burying small business by controlling government policy in our commucapitalist society. If you two truly believe in capitalism, you could see that what grassfarmer fights for is freedom. Economic freedom and equality for all business. Not favouritism as we see in the Alberta packing industry where the packers decide on issues like freedom to BSE test for market access or market manipulation through monopolization.

There are opportunities in Agriculture cowman, and as young as you are Whitey, I'm sure you never took part in the real estate market of the early 80's that could be repeated at any time. We all have our own reasons for being part of this industry, some will die a slow death, some will thrive, and some will dump it and run and judge those who remain to fight another day. I choose to not only thrive, but to fight another day - if for no other reason than to give hope to the very customers that butter and put a little honey on my bread from time to time.

[rkaiser]

One last thought on the whining of those who are somehow jealous of success.

I only wish that Whitey or cowman could show up at an ABP annual or maybe a CBEF meeting and watch the whining from some whimp like the Lakeside CEO. He cried and cried about how much cost would be involved if BSE testing were to be implimented (and all we saw was his intent to continue the captive market that IS putting extra bucks in his companies shareholders pockets). And do you all think the whining stopped there. No chancey Mr. Whalen. The whining went on in both the Provincial and Federal government offices and goes on to this day.

Instead we implemented age verification (do you think Dougy Horner was listening to the whining when he called for mandatory age verification) which cost the producer and not the packer. Just wait for this fall's ABP Annual cowman and Whitie - and I hope you can be there for it. Yes the Tyson CEO and the Cargill CEO will be there whining while yours truly brings evidence straight from the mouth of the KING of the Prion, Stanely Prusiner, that age verification is a waste of time and money. OOOPPPS. Did I say a waste of money. But whose time and money was wasted? Certainly not your wise business minded packers.

If you want to show respect for the packers whitie and cowman - go ahead, I do too. But not quite in the same way. I feel that their think tank is so far above even your business minds that they have both of you fooled before they even get close to the big picture. Like I say on Ranchers to the likes of Scott Huber or the Almighty Agman - go try to get a job with Cargill's think tank - they would laugh you out the door.

Cargill and Tyson are amazing powers in the business world, and have gotten that way by first pulling the wool over eyes like yours at minor levels with the same childish whining methods we are accused of and then putting big picture profits into the pockets of their investors and owners.

Have a happy day everyone........

[grassfarmer]

Whiteface, respectfully that's a pile of crap. How can anyone believe that the bigger a company is the more it pays it's workers? If they reach the heady heights of having market dominance through having little or no competition they can pay crap wages and screw anyone they want - as long as they keep rewarding their political friends to keep the decisions going in their favour. Look at Walmart another great success story eh? how many of their workers buy our beef? zero! Our customer demographic is very much young couples with kids, two mid to high incomes (not the crappy multinational minimum wage deals)who are looking to improve their families health. Don't you know that the poorer people in out society generally are poorer educated and have poorer paying jobs working for larger processing and retailing companies?

Oh and just a little tip if you try to sell any packing plants in your real estate career - they don't use a lot of gas to heat them they actually use a lot of power to cool the meat hence the huge power bills. But of course being an expert you already knew that.

[coppertop]

I don't want to get into this debate, but I will caution that just because a company is large does not mean it pays lots of taxes. Many multinational companies have managed to get around taxes for years, hence the new measures with Income Trusts.

All I know for sure is that the beef business today is one heck of a gamble, and I take my hat off to anyone that has the ingenuity to utilize niche markets, and value add to their product at home.

[whiteface]

Grassfarmer, respectfully, I too appreciate your opinion, and yes, you already know that. You are producing a healthy and tasteful product and I applaud that. I was there once as well and had enormous pride in what I did and how many people I sincerely felt I was doing a whole wack of good for. I slept well at night. Liked who I saw when I looked in the mirror and still today have a ton of respect for the likes of what you're doing. I've lost a whole wack of loved ones and a couple are on their way out even now...
as I've said a million times, you can't buy back your health. And so often our health is the consequence of our quest for sucess.
However. To all you do-gooders of life and get paid diddly squat or less...
and as I say to my hard luck tenants as they're problems crawl across my desk, I'm sorry, but I won't keep you as a pet. I don't get to be anyones pet and neither do you get to be one of mine.
I have enough pets but thanks for your offer anyway. Your rent is due because my mortgages (yes, mortgages, PLURAL...oh I know, that'll be the end of any feeling sorry for me, well good on ya, never asked for anyones sympathy), gas, electricity, taxes, taxes and more taxes are due and the consequences for me not paying my bills are that YOU no longer have a place to live. Real simple. I don't need to go on and on. I know you all get the point and most of you have known me long enough to know my MO by now anyway without me passing it through another three stomachs.
As Scott Huber always says, and I love it, divert, divert, divert. Why can't you just answer the blinking question if you dare to come on here or is it that some just need to argue. Okay, so grassfarmer says it's none of my business and really, fair enough, it really ain't, but then why do we need to get into it about how I apparently am now a "packer lover" (that wasn't grassfarmer, I think Sandhusker would need to be credited with that). I think we all would like to be well off, sucessful, okay, at the very least, alive but seriously, once the wheels of sucess start to roll, now you've got employees to manage, wages to consider, families other than your own that you're responsible for, more overhead, more taxation issues and sure, if you get big enough, you bet, you get to deal with shareholders. Now I ask you, and REALLY think about this one while you have nothing better to do. Some of these companys, and pick any one you want. Wal-mart, Sears, Canadian Tire, Lakeside, Tim Hortans...
Seriously,
They answer to their customers. Period. The ones that got them where they are in the first place. Bar none and they do it well and please the majority of the people that they need to because believe me you will never please everyone and it's foolish to try. There is just way too many types and varieties within those types to please them all. So as a sucessful entreprenuer you please the widest margin of people and as many within that margin of customers as you can.
Won't take long for your company to no longer be yours anyway. Middle management, CEO's, payroll, human resourses, omigod, it spirals out of control and in the end to keep it together you'd damn well better make sure the shareholders are happy cause if they ain't...
JENGA!
And now you're looking for a place to live (as my analogy above stated what happens to my hapless tenants if their bills aren't paid and hence my bills aren't paid). At the end of the day, grassfarmer, Randy, myself and cowman, we're all less than a spit in the bucket and if there are more people that need a company to be sucessful than those that hurt from it, sorry, majority wins. Takes an awful lot to rally a revolution. My hat is off to you both.
And after all that, I am dumbstruck grassfarmer that out of my post, your comment would be how the packers pay more in cooling energy than heat energy and that Randy would comment about how ugly it got in the housing market in the 80's. This is what you choose to focus on? I mean, really, I appreciate your input but for crying in the beer can you say "missed the big picture?"
The nicest compliment I recieved in the last year (and I've got a whole lot of five star insults too if any of you may be interested in them!) was when I told a good friend that I was no longer a farmer but now manageing tenants and properties, he said, well you never really were a farmer, always a business minded person and have simply just switched from selling one commodity ( the cows ) to another (real estate) and you'll be as good at it because you understand how any good business works and thrives. Then he continued with the comment of how I now have people and property as my "herd" instead of actual cattle and really nothing has changed. And I do treat my tenants just as good and respectfully and fairly as I ever did an expensive show heifer without letting the entire operation collapse. What favor would I be doing to them if I allowed the Jenga tower to collapse. Like letting down your shareholders. Not very good leadership quality. I think Scott Huber refers to it as saving one from themselves. Occasionally I need saving as well which is why I always value everyones opinion. I like learning how people think and what's important to them and how well thier ideas are being implemented into their actions. If you got through all that, thank you for your time, if you choose to add to it, I appreciate that as well. Have a great night all!

[cowman]

Good luck on your fighting the good fight against the ABP/CCA. If you enjoy that sort of thing then have at her! I guess the fact is about 95% either don't care or have realized it is a waste of time? Sort of like electing a federal government?
Now I'm certainly not here to bash your efforts to make more money off your cattle by getting out and peddling them around to make more money! All the power to you.
I guess I'm one of those people who will "die a slow death" in the cattle business. I wonder how long that might take? Maybe in 2010 when calves are $1 and the truck has risen to $60K?
And here I am, buying more land and more heifers...I must be crazy! Oh well some people buy a cottage by the lake or a fancy motorhome...gotta have a hobby!