• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cow Cycle

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Cow Cycle

    Hi Everyone:

    I noted Kpb's comments about a cow cycle in another thread. You have to admire Kpb's determination.

    Although we have been blessed with more than our fair share of moisture this fall, the fact of the matter is that others have not been so lucky. At this very moment there is a very severe drought in the cattle producing regions of the United States as well as Australia. The people who forecast such things in the U.S. are already adjusting their forecasts regarding the size of the U.S. cattle herd in the upcoming years as a result of the present drought.

    I recall reading somewhere a comment by an old rancher that the only reason a cow producer will reduce his/her herd size is drought, not price. I would suggest that the cycle, if there is one, is more closely related to cycles in weather than anything else.

    I would put it to you that if the cow cycle did exist and if we were to assume the cow cycle was related to prices that we would see an relationship between price and calf numbers that was the opposite to what we are led to believe would happen. That is when calf prices fall, calf numbers would tend to increase as producers need to keep more calves to pay their bills, not fewer calves.

    Given the realities in our market, packer monopolies, government control over non NAFTA imports, flucuating grain prices, competing meats, consumer spending preferences not to mention BSE that it seems pretty far fetched to lay the blame on falling calf prices on too many calves. The notion of a cow cycle always has been a smoke screen that covers up a host of ills in the industry that those in control would rather not deal with.

    That said, drought will change herd size very quickly. Price will not or at least only very slowly over a generation or more. If there is a cycle it is more likely related to what goes in the rain guage than the price of calves.

    #2
    Nice to see you back farmers son.

    I've discussed and explained the cattle cycle numerous times on this forum including recently as you pointed out. Frankly I'm tired of talking about it to people like farmers son who say they don't believe in it.

    The idea of all commodities having cycles is not mine and hardly new--it's only been around for hundreds of years based on supply and demand. So if people want to remake economics according to their own political agendas or what they what would like to happen rather than reality well, what can you do? Some people think the world was created 7,000 years ago too. Eventually you just have to leave people with their own constricted views.

    All I know is that the cattle cycle has worked well for me in the past. So maybe I'm just lucky. But, whatever, I think I'll just keep on doing what has worked for me. The cattle cycle is alive and well, just like cycles in any other commodity, and if you would rather believe in short-term influences like drought, etc. than I hope that works for you too.

    kpb

    Comment


      #3
      Kpb: I quote your comment in the How’s the Fall Run Doing thread “I wish farmers son was around so we could debate the existence of a cattle cycle again.”

      Now you comment “I've discussed and explained the cattle cycle numerous times on this forum including recently as you pointed out. Frankly I'm tired of talking about it to people like farmers son who say they don't believe in it. “

      OK... if that is your wish. Sorry I misunderstood you.

      Comment


        #4
        farmers son, you're right, it was inconsistent. I guess I'm just feeling a little under the weather right now and tired after rounding up the yearlings and weaning the calves. Any rate I'm sure we'll have our cattle cycle (and likely others) discussion again in the future. Nice to have you back on board, your comments are always articulate and thought provoking.

        kpb

        Comment


          #5
          Could what appears to be a Cattle Cycle, actually be an El Nino cycle?

          It would appear to me that the price of feed grain for finishing calves is the biggest factor on the price of calves. The price of feed grains seems to be related to the el nino or lack of el nino events. Government policy also has an effect.

          The use of feed grains in ethanol production, could have the greatest impact on the cattle industry that we have ever seen. If ethanol production should keep the price of feed grains artifically high, then the reality of cheaper calves is probably here to stay for a long time.

          Areas in the world that don't rely as much on grains to fatten beef will have a competive advantage over North
          America.

          Comment


            #6
            I was reading an article the other day about one theory that the ethanol production is going to take a lot of American set aside land back into production, and possibly cancel out the expected rise in price. Who knows, the guy may have a point.

            We've got a huge expansion to our local ethanol plant going on right now, but it's mainly using wheat. The byproduct is supposed to be good feed, but we'll have to wait and see how that will cost out, and how available it will be to we common folk.

            Comment


              #7
              While I do believe there is a cattle cycle, I think it can sure get delayed or put off track at times?
              The US cow/calf producer has had a few excellent years and should be expanding? This has been foiled to a certain degree by mother nature?
              The Canadian cow/calf producer has been getting the signal to liquidate due to BSE and low prices? High grain prices should also signal further liquidation? If grain prices remain high next year(and look like there might be some stability in that market) I would suspect there might be a stampede out of cattle? If these ethanol/biodeisel plants become the realmeal deal there might be a wholesale shift back into grain/oilseed production? Now some land is just junk land only suited for grazing but there is a lot of very good land that could be shifted back into cereal and oilseed production? If it pays to go that route the Canadian farmer will take it?

              Comment

              • Reply to this Thread
              • Return to Topic List
              Working...