Another Opinion on the Third Way

[cakadu]

This article was written by Graham Hicks in the Edmonton Sun and provides some food for thought. I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

YANKEE HEALTH-CARE HORROR

We've all heard horror stories about American health care.

On our San Francisco sojourn last week, our Bay Area friends quietly
assured us.

The stories are true.

The private, profit-driven American system is not about health. It's about
money.

Bay Area residents Jeff and Corry are lucky enough to have a good health
plan mostly paid for by his employer.

He pays a token $50 a month for a family of four to be part of an
employer-selected HMO, Health Maintenance Organization.

But if he was laid off or quit, big trouble.

"I'd either pay the full shot myself or have to buy insurance on my own."

There are myriads of private health plans in the U.S., much like dental or
drug plans here in Canada, each with different levels of deductibility and
quality of health care.

The cheapest family insurance plan starts at $500 a month and heads
skyward. The quality of health care we receive in Alberta would cost at
least $1,000 a month. And that's likely too low.

"If you're destitute in the States, with no assets and no house, you're
OK," Jeff says. "You qualify for medical aid. It's all free. But you have
to go to state-run county hospitals, where the medicine is assembly line
and they'd rather not be treating you."

It's the self-employed, or those changing jobs that are tremendously
squeezed.

"If money's tight and there's no company plan, many Americans take their
chances and drop health insurance," says Jeff.

King Ralph, if your Third Way is about innovative ways of improving health
care within a publicly funded, equal-access system, that's fine. As
taxpayers, we'll pay whatever it takes.

But otherwise, DON'T MESS WITH OUR HEALTH CARE!!!

[wilagro]

Send a copy to every frickin' MLA in Alberta. Maybe, just maybe, it will smarten the bastards up. Third way indeed...what a lot of crap.
Ralph should be ashamed of himself, trying to fool Albertans with this bullshit ruse.

[cakadu]

It does give one pause to think about how those who can't afford anything will be able to get care.

Of course the health care system is costing more - we are living longer and there are more of us reaching the age where we start to require more in the way of medical attention. As has been discussed in other threads, there are drains on the system, not the least of which is a burgeoning administration. There are also people who abuse the system and after a point they should be required to pay something to offset what they are getting billed for. I would suspect that there are a good number of people who don't go to the dr. unless absolutely necessary and even then they have to be pretty ill to go.

Just like many farm programs, the money for health care doesn't always reach where it is needed most nor it's intended recipients.

If you have the means to pay for this third way, whatever it is going to look like, then it isn't such a big deal. On the other hand, if you are barely getting by, the uncertainty of what it will look like must be quite disconcerting. Not everyone is making wages in the oil patch and not everyone has the ability to be able to leave families etc. to go and work away from home for long stretches at a time.

I thought the whole point of the health care system was equal access for all. I guess some will just be more equal than others.

[Horse]

Wilagro I agree but the trouble is that He is suceeding at fooling most altans. And when you have a built in radio station that is quite widely listened to that is quite an asset.Along with all the new rich in the oil patch that think they are god what do you expect. I wonder how the mighty will feel if the patch tanks again. What was the saying God give us another oil boom and we promis not to piss it away next time.
cakadu I hope some one will at least set this out in writing so we can at least have a open and through discussion , as it is now we are all jumping at shadows but better to jump than find out later there is no place left to jump to.

[Horse]

There are many options that the government likely isn't pursuing.
For one, I wish there was an insurance like Blue Cross that I could purchase that covered alternative medications, and visits to naturopaths etc.

Many people look after their health problems by seeking alternative ways to treat them and taking the holistic approach toward their health. This comes at a significant cost and in my view a lot of what is available keeps people out of the traditional health care system.

My option would be to provide Albertans with a health spending fund and let them use it as they see fit as long as they have access to the health care system when necessary.

[ivbinconned]

"It's all free. But you have
to go to state-run county hospitals, where the medicine is assembly line,
and they'd rather not be treating you."
----------------------------------


Just like in Canada eh! Thats why Jack Chow and Paul Martin, supposedly principled men, took a "third way"...but thats OK with some...cause they are your hero's!

[cowman]

I guess if Klein can bring in a system that improves efficiency and lowers costs, then that might be a good thing? I think that is what he is saying he is trying to do? Does he have a "secret evil agenda"? Or is he looking out for the Alberta taxpayers interest?
When you trot into the clinic never doubt the "private enterprize" clinic is billing the government for your service? And so is the "private enterprize" doctor! If you go to the ER the only difference is there is no clinic to send in the bill...the doctor still sends in his!
This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot! The biggest complaint is people think someone might be jumping the line because they can afford to pay a fee. The fact is that won't diminish one iota the public service you will get while you wait in line?
Here is a shocking concept: You have the money, you can buy the fancy house, or car, or restaurant meal? Its called the market? And yep, if you have the money you can, right now, go down to the Mayo clinic in Scottsdale and get treated right away, rather than die waiting for the Canadian public system to get around to you? The fact is that system is operating right now...just ask all the big shot Canadian politicians!

[cowman]

Just wonder why you might want to chop straw finer? Some of this darned rotary straw is chopped too much as it is?
The neighbor had a real wreck a few years ago with rotary straw. Cows impacted.

[cowman]

The Mayo clinic that my late husband went to was in Rochester Minn. Only a portion of his visit was covered by AB
Health Care and Blue cross.
We paid up front and our cost after all coverages by health care was $10,000.
I have a problem with que jumping as it relates to people with money having less suffering with things like hip replacements, heart surgery etc. than those of modest income.

People having the ability to pay have been able to access MRI's for ages, but one individual I know can get in for one covered by the health care system within a week, and has several times, just because her doctor has more clout !!!
She is a chronic complainer and spends more time in the doctors office than she does anywhere else, so I have difficulty in her being sent ahead of people who are genuinely in need of an MRI.
And that is being done through the public system. IF she had to pay she would forget about her problems I am sure !!!

[northfarmer]

We would be unwize to not, on a continual basis, crtically look at how we might tweek or medical delivery and healtcare system to enure it achieves the greatest possible results with the most effecient use of resources.

To say, as simply many have, that we should not change the system, is ridiculous. The system has changed and evloved over time and always will. There are too many that live in fear of change.

Alberta has been the constant target of many on the national stage as the leaders of the evil demise of public health, when in fact more dramatic evolutions to the system have already occurred in other provinces like Quebec, Ontario, and BC.

[Horse]

How does payimg from your own pocket make the system cheaper? It does not ,all it does is let the rich in the front of the line.
Now there is those that would argue that is a good thing after all dont we need the Chirfs moreso than the indian.

[Horse]

I have no problem with those who have the ability to pay going to private clinics that do not work within the public system, but I do have a problem with people jumping the que and getting treatment, surgeries etc. before others without the funds to pay for their care when they may need the treatment far more expediently.
I have heard many Albertans say they should be able to get treatment anytime they want to pay for it, and that is what the government is counting on, the affluence of Albertans will dictate the type of health care we have and that is fundamentally wrong.
Surely we need to rework the system, and in my view there is ample funding for health care if the government would just have the guts to disband health regions and get back to basic community health care that was affordable and available.

when one person has to go to five different communities within two health regions to get tests and advice on treatment for a hip problem, as a neighbour of mine has just done, it does not make one ounce of sense.
If he chose to spend a lot of money he could likely get his hip replacement done at a private clinic, but if he doesn't have the money he suffers until one of the specialists he has seen has time to operate within the health care system.

[cakadu]

I don't think people have a problem with change because it is inevitable. Contrary to what Shrek says to Donkey, not all change is good.

If you want to pay, fine - I agree with emrald on that point. I even agree with you cowman that there are all kinds of toys out there that can be bought if you are willing and have the means to pay. Not every one can afford to buy the toys and there are those that could afford the toys but choose not to get them. There is no way on earth "things" can be compared to one's health and health care.

Like emrald I know of one lady in particular who called for an ambulance every time she basically had a hang nail. What an absolute waste of resources and she should have been expected to pay out of her own pocket for those needless calls, not to mention taking away from someone who really needed it.

For whatever reasons there are people out there who refuse to acknowledge that there are a growing number who are just barely getting by, let alone have the money to afford wants. Not everyone can afford to pay, even if they wanted to. Do we really want to see a day when an illness can completely wipe out any savings or assets you might have? And what about those who have nothing to sell or fall back on? Isn't that the reason Tommy proposed health care in the first place - equal access to all?

[cakadu]

Linda, illness has wiped out savings, and certainly in our regional health system travelling from one doctor or lab to another adds a significant cost to obtaining care within the system. Some individuals aren't able to drive or don't have vehicles,or are too ill to drive, so of course they must depend on voluntary transportation or it is necessary to pay to have someone drive them, sometimes on several occasions to see specialists, have tests etc.
If the regional health system was really working, there would be doctors, labs etc. all housed in one community within a region. but that is too logical so of course it isn't happening.

[cowman]

Free unlimited health care was always a recipe for disaster because when anything is "free" someone will always take advantage of it. And I'm not just talking about the little old social visit grannies here! The doctors have pretty well ripped the system off.
If you want a public system put the doctors on a salary? Don't let them operate as privateers within a public system.
Start running the thing like a business instead of a typical government gravy train! The fact is there is almost nothing the public sector can do cheaper and better than private enterprize?
I would think we have a wonderful model in place already of how a private system can work, while still being publicly funded? Called the abortion mill? Way cheaper than killing your baby in the hospital? And fully funded by the government. No waiting in line there? You might wait a year to get heart surgery within the public system but you can get that kid killed right away!