1/4 Section Farms

[TOM4CWB]

Vader:

You said;

"Can the 1/4 section operator compete at these low commodity prices?"

DO you believe a 1/4 section farmer should be able to make a living, off a quarter of land, without doing anything else?

Astounding... if this is what you believe is right and fair to other Canadians!

On a 1500ac farm, I would make the case that this is even too small to make a living...

There is simply not enough work on 1500ac: with modern machinery to justify the hours invested;

To expect CDN's to pay to have me sit around and wine and complain for the rest of the year!

And I should have the right to fill my pockets... to maintain my life style at the expense of other hard working CDN's?

Shouldn't you give your head a shake if you expect a free ride at the expense of the rest of CDN's?

[TOM4CWB]

By the way... this was in the context of a 1/4 section; or 1500ac conventional GRAIN Farm that Vader was expressing: and I was speaking about.

[Vader]

Tom, don't be ridiculous.

I do expect that a 1/4 section farmer should be able to make a profit.

I expect that a 10,000 acre farmer might have a lower cost of production being able to spread his fixed costs over a larger land base.

So if you drive commodity prices down to where only the 10,000 acre farmer is profitable it does raise the question of what the end game is.

[cowman]

TOM4CWB: You are pretty much right on the money about the farm size thing. The fact of the matter is in this day and age it is pretty difficult to make a decent living...with even 1500 acres...grain farm! And who knows where that is going to go?
The important thing here is this: No "collective scheme" is going to save anyone? It just is not going to happen!
The entrepreneur will???
Free the darned farmers...to succeed or fail! Don't hold back those who "CAN" for those who "CAN'T"! Nothing wrong if you can't...you'll get a life? Just don't continue this foolish charade of pretending everyone "can"? It is complete foolishness. Let the ones who "can"...do it?

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

Just think about what you said!

A really skimpy 1/4 section grain farmer would need $200/ac profit clear; above all expences to keep a family going. And if you look at an average farm family; they are spending closer to $50,000 not $32,000... average then needed is $300/ac.

Let us assume that a well managed grain farm with 16,000ac; profit before labour cost alone... would mean a clear profit of $300 times 16,000ac is $4.8 million.

And obviously this would all come from the taxpayers of Canada... or the poor folks (800,000,000 of them that make less than $5/day gross) of the world?

Incredible!

Are you serious Vader in your logic?

Is there any wonder we have an incredible problem down at the CWB Board of Directors and their Management?

[Vader]

Tom, are you completely dense. I didn't say that a 1/4 section farmer should be able to make a living on that farm. Obviously he is going to have off farm income to supplement what he is doing.

Are you saying that 1/4 section farmers need to be done away with?

[Vader]

Why do you think there are so many small farmers? It is because they love what they do and they have found a way to keep on doing it. They certainly can't justify buying large new equipment and they can't make a living at it.

So who will survive in the end?

The big farmers are more at risk in this game than the little guys. You take a million dollar operation and run it into negative margins for a couple of years and I think that a lot more big guys will bite the dust than little guys.

So don't tell me that we should not hold back the guys that can for the guys that can't. The jury is still out on who can and who can't!

[Ron]

I think you are right Vader, a small farmer can go to work off farm if times get bad. A large farmer has a full time job at home and has to sink or swim with his farm.
A small farm can give you a great place to raise kids, retire etc and supplement your income.
You cant expect to net 30,000 per quarter (except for recreational hemp?) but you should make something ($50-100/ac) with older equipment. There are a lot worse hobbies.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

You said,

"Are you saying that 1/4 section farmers need to be done away with?"

I did not say this.

Vader, are you saying that large farms need to be done away with... or must cross-subsidise small farm units?

[malleefarmer]

Vader should apply for a job at the AWB he seems to talk the same jargon looking through his many posts and responses, it seems there will be a few vacancies!!!

Even the poor old farmer directors are caught up in by as being board members havent shown due diligence.

[Vader]

Tom, I did not say large farms need to be done away with. Another one of your ridiculous statements. I did say that large farms are more at risk than small farms.

I would like you to expand on your inference that large farms subsidize small farms. This is something else that I did not say nor did I imply it.

[Vader]

malleefarmer,

This is off topic but I met a farmer from the mallee area of Australia. He was a speaker at our Canadian Wheat Board meeting in Saskatoon in January. He mentioned the price of wheat which I converted into Canadian Dollars. It came out to $4.14 per bushel for a good quality wheat.

I spoke to him privately afterwards and he was very optimistic about the future of farming in Australia. I did not get the sense of pessimism that I get talking to Canadian and American farmers.

I suspect that your wheat tends to grade top quality more often than not where here in Saskatchewan we are continually facing weather problems where we do not get top quality wheat. If we always got top quality and always got $4.14 per bushel we would probably be much more optimistic about our future.

I think also that your proximity to the SE Asian market allows you to be more competitive in those markets than we are. We spend 50 dollars per tonne to get our grain to the West Coast and then another 50-75 dollars in ocean freight to participate in the South East Asian marketplace.

Are you as optimistic as your fellow mallee farmer was in Saskatoon?

[onearm]

i think there are lots of 1/4 section farmers because of the tax write offs

[TOM4CWB]

Vader,

If farmers need not cross subsidise each other... then please issue no cost export licenses to those who need them; small or large.

That the CWB still does not allow a cash daily delivery/price for our grain shows how crazy this system in Canada is.

We need daily market signals. Like the DPC offered all year long... not stopped on July 23,2005 for the crop not harvested yet.

Please Vader... your CWB Directors MUST WAKE UP!

Durum is being contracted for fall 06 delivery in North Dakota @ $4.50USD... while our "designated area" durum growers drown in stored high quality durum that cannot be marketed because of the CWB "Single desk"!

We must do better... "designated area" grain growers are being destroyed... both small and large... by the CWB "Single desk"!

When do we start fixing it Vader?

[malleefarmer]

Vader what was this farmers name as i know of none gone over to canada,please inform.
Yeah im confident and optomistic even with all our oil for food scandals, my costs of production are so so much lower than you guys of i presume they are.
This is very rough guide had to convert acres, it cost me 50 to 60 dollars Aust per acre to grow a 30 bushel to acre crop, i think your inputs may be alot higher, land is astronomically expensive here though approaching $300 aust per acre