They say if you live long enough

[farmers_son]

Well, the vote is over. Apparently a historic vote as it was the first time in Canada that the Speaker of the House broke a tie vote on a confidence motion. By tomorrow everyone will have forgotten Belinda and instead focus on the Queens visit and government will get back to work, as it should be. Enjoyed the repartee with Emrald1 on a dramatic and historic day in Federal politics. Nice break from BSE.

[farmers_son]

farmers_son, if you think that government is going to be back doing business as they should be, you must believe that pigs will fly. Jack Layton has already announced that his DEAL with Martin ends the minute the budget receives third reading.
The budget still has to go to committee, and may come back amended prior to third reading,so the country will be treated to more lies, more politicing on all sides and lord knows what else. The only good thing I saw today was Kilgour !!

[farmers_son]

True, minority governments operate differently than majority governments so it will not be business as normal. Certainly there will be more politicing on all sides and the electioneering continues as all know an election is going to happen within a year.

You mention Kilgour. What a wasted opportunity there. Kilgour spend what political capital he had, and it would have been considerable, on sending troops to Danfur. An Edmonton MP, even though not a rural MP, he could have asked for a packing plant or any of a host of other solutions needed for the BSE crisis. After all Alberta is Canada’s number one cattle producing region. There certainly was no way he was going to get a cabinet post. A total waste.

I was impressed with Chuck Cadman. I read his bio. He got involved in politics after his 16 year old son was murdered. At first an activist for better young offender legislation he joined the Reform party where he was Justice Critic. He has a private members bill incorporated into legislation which is no small feat for an opposition member. He lost the Conservative nomination in 2004 and ran as an independent becoming the only independent MP elected in the last election handily beating out the Conservative candidate. Cadman is being treated for cancer and heard about the election call from his hospital bed. I thought it was impressive he chose to vote based on his constituents views instead of personal gain or personal views like Kilgour did. Cadman is an example of the kind of person we are fortunate to have in Ottawa.

[grassfarmer]

Maybe Kilgour reckoned in the grand scheme of things that trying to prevent genocide in a foreign land was more important than trying to build beef slaughter plants domestically?
I tend to agree with him - we sometimes get carried away with the importance of agriculture or the beef industry.

[farmers_son]

Well you are certainly right. And if we could erase world hunger it would be more important than universal day care here in Canada. Some problems are hard to solve.

The Sudan did not want our help, thank you very much. But seeking made in Canada solutions to the BSE crisis was something that could have been done. Solving the crisis in the Sudan was certainly beyond the scope of what could be accomplished by Kilgour in his role as an independent MP.

Kilgour was in a position to make a difference. I do not think he did. What do you think he should have done?

Speaking of world hunger, we cannot even get our cows killed, besides feed the world. And on the same note, the Mennonite people who slaughter and can cows to donate to hunger projects overseas were just about shut down by the CFIA. Maybe off topic, maybe not. Kilgour could have made a real difference and chose to go tilting at windmills.

[farmers_son]

I should add that Stronach was at least aware that there was a BSE crisis and made token gestures to do something about it.

[daretodiffer]

Thank you "farmers son" for doggedly trying to class up the ridiculous rants of the regulars on this thread. You are the kind of person who keeps this country going by your thinking and reasoning. To see the snorting and harumphing going on by many of the supporters of "family values" makes for a great spectacle but seems a sure sign that they have never had to show some leadership in complex issues.

[daretodiffer]

Sorry again to disagree with you but some of us have been in situations as elected and appointed officials where we are making decisions on a daily basis that affect the interests of thousands. The day that family values is discredited is a sad day on this site, if more politicians had family values and integrity the country would not be in the mess it is. When I support any politician I find out what I can about how they conduct themselves as an ordinary citizen. In my opinion, every politician no matter what level should set the bar very high for their own personal conduct, then it might come naturally for them at a political level.

[silverback]

How can anybody be making excuses to keep the Liberal party in power and not in prison???

What part of the word corruption do some of you not understand???

Quit blabbing about Harper, McKay, and Stronach and the soap opera the media is spinning around. Focus on a real issue for a while.

Anyone who can say we should just let things go on the way they are and let the Liberals keep blowing away our money is out of their minds!!

Tell me what great values the Liberal party represent and I will try to understand what you see in them. Then tell me in point form what "scares" you about the other 2 parties and then we can have a real discussion.

[farmers_son]

If you are directing those comments towards me I would say the great value the Liberal party represented for me was they kept Canada out of Iraq, even if at great cost. What scares me about the Conservatives is I see them seeking closer ties to the Americans, that Harper is closer to Bush than to Stanfield or Diefenbaker. The federal NDs would obviously see spending increase and I would be concerned they would be running a deficit budget if they were in power. And those are just opinions of mine, people are free to disagree. There is no simple right or wrong opinion or answer. I think it is important for everyone to remember that.

I understand corruption, just don't really believe the other parties are all that pure either, and I am not sure I am all that hung up on the Liberal sponsorship scandal. No one is saying the PQs were playing fair in the separatist debate, the future of the country was at stake, it might be naive to believe everyone in politics is a choir boy, irregardless of party affiliation. Certainly some distance has been put between the Martin Liberals and the Chretian Liberals and even though that don't make it right until Gomery issues his report we don't really know the facts, if indeed we ever will.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, if i'm not mistaken Sadam Hussain's regime did not want the Americans help either. Sometimes when the Government is behind a genocide of some of it's own citizens they don't look for outside "help" - doesn't mean the people being murdered don't deserve our help.

[farmers_son]

The situation in the Sudan is very unfortunate. Was it something Kilgour could fix, I think not. Doesn't mean there were not problems at home that he could have influenced had he tried.

[FarmRanger]

“the great value the Liberal party represented for me was they kept Canada out of Iraq, even if at great cost.”
To who? Mostly the west, and they could have kept troops out of Iraq without trying to insult the Americans in the process. The Liberal comments of “American bastards” was uncalled for and the person responsible should have been kicked out of the Liberal party. There’s a difference between keeping our troops out of Iraq, (which I happen to agree with, we didn’t have to ability to do any good there anyway, any support we offered would have been merely symbolic) and purposely trying to tick off our largest trading partner.

And daretodiffer, its funny how people who try to point out the corruption which appears to be endemic with the Liberals, get relegated to the status of the “regulars on this thread with ridiculous rants”. How typical, divert from the issue by simply marginalizing a view you disagree with. That way you don’t have to actually defend a point, just namecall the person making it. Once you can label a person some derogatory name, you can shut them out of any debate. Unfortunately, it seems to be the Canadian way. There is never any honest debate allowed. If someone voices a non liberal opinion, they are instantly marginalized by the media and the left. So much for freedom of speech.

Well, this thread regular would like to know which rant was ridiculous. Wanting accountability in government? How silly, who would want that? Demanding to have leaders with integrity? Poo Poo, what a right wing whacko idea that is, must be a hidden agenda there somewhere. Kick out a government that uses stolen tax dollars to keep themselves in power. Oh my, can’t be that, who would be upset about that except some ridiculous ranting nutjob. Obviously someone who shouldn’t be listened to, voicing dangerous ideas like that.

[FarmRanger]

FarmRanger, thank you for some excellent comments !!!!!
The reason this site appeals to me is because of the many opinions and wide array of expertise. Making derogatory comments is an example of imature behavior not matter whether its in Ottawa or on Agri- Ville !!
I don't necessarily agree with farmers_Son with respect to politics but I certainly respect his right to his opinion....and certainly appreciate his obvious knowledge about many cattle and agricultural related topics.
I think that the entire Belinda/Government issue has caused a considerable amount of emotions among a lot of people this week. Time to relax and enjoy the long weekend !!!

[grassfarmer]

Yeah it would be interesting to see "daretodiffer" dare to actually post a new thread or voice some original ideas rather than sit on the sidelines and snipe.