going hard on faith!

[dballan]

Positive........orthodox. Resting today! Asked a friend of mine at church this morning for his email address so I could pass it on to you somehow. He wears a skull cap, shawl and blows the shofar in our services during worship. He understands much more of what you relate to than I.

[cowman]

Well I'm a little slack about visiting this sight but I don't know about all this talk about demons making people gay? Personally I've never seen no demons and I suspect most people can be evil and wicked without any help from Satan?
Now I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy and I need to see things with my own two eyes before I buy into them. My faith is built on a common sense approach, in my opinion. Occasionally I might get a little glimpse into something else, but basically not.
I don't see being gay as something really evil. Now I do see selling killer drugs to young people as being true evil or serial sex killers as being intrinsically evil! But you know we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God? The message of Christ was we have a redeemer who fixes that?
That is the whole thrust of the entire bible?...and that makes Christianity a pretty easy religion?
I don't know about Jews? Do they have a redeemer? How do they reconcile the fact that they are not acceptable to God, according to the Christian way of looking at things? Or maybe they don't think they are unacceptable to God?
I often wonder how Christians view the Jews? Do they consider them the true chosen people or a religion that just didn't get it right? In the Christian bible it says you have to come to God through the son...so how can the Jews be acceptable?
I realize arguing religion is a no win situation and I'm not saying I have all the answers! Because I sure don't!
I believe we all have a journey here and we are all here to learn something? Hopefully we aren't just wasting our time and spinning our wheels?

[dballan]

Hi Cowman. Good to see that you are up and well. I believe that God will judge the homosexual, that the Holy Spirit will convict him/her, and that we are to love them. It doesn't do us or anyone else any good to do the judging and convicting. If God and the Holy Spirit don't do it we end up just driving in more wedges between the sinner and the Lord by doing it ourselves. That is not to say that we are to condone their actions. We need to follow the Word in that regard. They, like all the rest of us, are sinners and are just as dependent upon the blood of the Lamb for redemption. I have acquaintances who claim to be homosexual. They know that I don't approve of their behaviour. If I thumped them with the Bible the door would close for further communication with them. What would that accomplish?

[sksundstrom]

Cowman
Nice to hear from a nut ..... and bolt man. I'm the same.
The problem is that once something is fact it is no longer faith. And that fact might not even be truth. What is your faith Cowman?
Since the spiritual world is rarely seen it must not exist, right?
If we look at the gay lifestyle from a biblical perspective, we see that there is one that is out to kill, steal and destroy and that is satan, right.
So if someones life is cut in half it is hard to believe that God is behind that!
God is the giver of life, abundant life.
The only sin that humans has to answer to is if we have believed in Yeshua or not. John 16:9.
There is no traditional sins held against any human according to 1 John 2:2 and Rom 5:6-11. Every human has the opportunity to be reconciled with God by just believing that Yeshua is who He said he was. Now if a human believes in Yeshua he/she also believes His word and wants to do as Yeshua said. John1:14 tells us that Yeshua is the word that became flesh. Now think a bit. The gospels and all the books in the New Testament hadn't been written yet. Consequently the word that became flesh is the Old Testament books which are the Torah, the prophets and the writings. How can a person show that he/she believes in Yeshua? By living according to - the Word. Yeshua is the living Torah.

[dballan]

Faith is fact. It is not fiction, but it is still faith, in fact.

[cowman]

sksundstrom: Oh I accept that their is a spiritual world. As I said occasionally I get a glimpse or sense, if you will, that there is something to it! Almost like a guiding light.
But I can honestly say I don't think I've ever witnessed anything para normal in my whole life?
My faith is a pretty easy one. To me obviously there was a creator. Christianity works for me because it makes sense to me. Don't know about other religions because I just never looked into them all that much. Raised in a practical Prespryterian home where the message of Christs redemption were just taken for granted. In later years tried some more radical types of Christianity but still believe the doctrines of Knox were pretty well right on.
I still believe "good works" are just a reflection of what is inside of you and will come out naturally in your everyday dealing with the world...not something you do to prove to yourself or the world what you are?
I can be a pretty tough businessman but I've never cheated anyone or treated them differently than I would want to be treated! I don't expect anyone to "baby" me in business but I do expect them to be honest and fair.
Faith is a hard thing to describe? It isn't something you can nail down hard and fast...or at least I sure can't?
I have a little voice inside me that tells me what is right and wrong and it does tell me that there is something very wrong about homosexuality! Also sleeping around on the wife, screwing someone on a business deal, stabbing your neighbor in the back, demeaning people, killing unborn babies!
I think at the end of the day, when we stand before God, if you can say "Hey I think I led a pretty decent life(not a perfect life) and I had empathy for my brother" then you probably did okay?
My biggest problem has always been pride in myself and my ability to get things done! I struggle with that one all the time. I try not to have contempt for people, whether it be the bum in the gutter or the drug addict or the flaming gay! I often remind myself "There but for the grace of God go I"!
We are all corrupt and I don't know why some people fall by the wayside while others don't? I suspect God has a plan for each of us and different circumstances for each of us to live with? Quite frankly I believe God gave me a pretty good game to play, even though I have had some pretty tough hands to play at times! Nothing as serious as a lot of people but tough all the same? Health issues, divorce, business setbacks...through all this I have never lost my faith. At times that was what kept me going. I really like the story of Job and I like Eclesiastics! A whole lot of valuable insights in those two!

[sksundstrom]

Hebr 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Rom 8:24 .But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
Faith is something that is going to become fact. Like God does things, Rom 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. Just like when He made this place God speaks out what He wants to become a fact. We should do like Yeshua, right?, and only say what the father says.
That is how a we all become saved-believing in the heart and confess with the mouth. Rom 10:8-10. I see believing more like a decision, 1 Thess 5:21.
That is what counts when we see God face to face! If we believe that Yeshua is Gods word in the flesh and make Him Lord of our lives while still in this earth-suit. Not our deeds! So nobody can brag. Eph 2:9.
Fact is not always truth. I.e I can not see your intellect, alas you have none! It is hard for nuts and bolts guys like me to accept somthing through effects of somthing. Like the wind. It is untangible yet has serious effects. Still we do everthing based on faith or trust. Thats how God made us-in His image.
Intersting about Job, he lost his faith,3:25, almost lost everything in the game of life and re-gained His faith and got double after he repented,42:6-. All his trouble lasted about 9 months and he lived in abundance with God for 140 years after and who knows how many before. Also God has Job to pray for his friends who had spoken wrong!! Everything said by his friends is wrong-not fact.
I personally appreciate the Torah,first 5 books, more and more. They are the foundation for everything else in the Bible. It is hard to build the second storey without the foundation?
Shalom

[SW1-32-5-4]

Hey sksundstrom
The bibles that I read show me that Yeshua is the Word not the first five books of the Old Testament. There is no one more practical and rational in their statements on these pages than the old cowman. However I see that he tends to miss the whole point on faith. Faith can come to you only one way and that is by the word of God, Rom 10;17. When we follow old reformers and theologens we tend to fall into the same ditch that they did. So fellows let the Word and the Holy Spirit be your teacher not the tradions of men. see Colsians 2;8

[cowman]

Well I do read the bible...almost daily...and that is my source of faith! It just happens that I personally believe Knox pretty well had it right.
The bible is a complete book. You can't take one part of it and focus on that...the whole thing supports every part of it, in my opinion?
Jesus Christ said I am the word. He also says before the world was created he was! He was either a liar, insane, or truly what he said he was? You choose which one?
In my opinion the new testament is the culmination of everything else that was written in the bible? Sort of brings the whole thing into focus?

[sksundstrom]

SW
When Yeshua came in to this world, what word of God existed? Not gospels or any epistels, right. The word that it talks about in John 1:14 that became flesh, is the OT. or Tanak including the Torah,5 first books, the prophets and the writings. The prophets and writings for the most part expounds and explains the Torah.
Yeshua only read the Tanak. NT from Matthew on, was not written then. Yeshua got His faith from the Tanak and He is very strong regarding the importance of the Torah and the prophets in Matt 5:17-20.There is still a heaven and a earth, right?
So SW do you follow Gods word and keep Sabbath? On the seventh day? Or has your "spirit" led you to do otherwise- contrary to Gods word? The fourth commandment, is it still Gods word? Yeshua in the flesh! Faith is also obedience in the face of inconvenience and man-made traditions. I'm pushing a bit but I hope you don't get offended!?
Sam