Hay Boone!

[Incognito]

Life was easier in here when you I were the only whackos nattering back and forth. I see we brought out some ghost writers tho and thats not a bad thing.

Some food for thought:

Ag. Policy has been and will continue to be as divisive as it was in the 70's, 80's, 90's and this century. On any given day, on any given issue, the vote is too close to count between the left and the right and I don't care what issue it is.

In the interim, when policy groups and the left and the right are killing trees with economic analysis of which marketing system, which transportation system, railcar ownership or any other flavour of the day, the world is passing us by.

As long as everyone is 51/49 today and 49/51 tomorrow, do you actually think politicians are going to stake their political career on a major policy move? NOT. SO everyone keep arguing, take sides, agree to disagree, don't make changes, keep the status quo (look Boone I wrote status quo and my keyboard still works!) and life will go on.

Ah, but there's the rub.

Someone in a posh hotel in Geneva at US$395.00 a night, is going to force change to what they want. Not what is best for our farms.

And that is exactly what Ottawa wants. If the West can't decide what they want - why should we? Consensus is a cowardly word in politics - a word that is entirely devoid of leadership.

The difference between farmers in Quebec, farmers in the U.S., and farmers in the E.U.? THEY FRIKKIN AGREE COLLECTIVELY IN PUBLIC. They fight behind closed doors and put on a unified front in the media and the public AND they generally get what they want.

We've been fighting over the same frikkin things for 25 years. Fighting over the CROW/WGTA really worked didn't it!

Fighting over the CWB is going to produce the same results.

Attrition in the farming communities in Saskatchewan will occur more quickly this year than any other year in the past. Yes, even when interest rates were 19-21%.

Maybe thats what it will take for a majority to agree.

10,000 farmers with a unified voice is much more effective than 60,000 split 51/49 today and 49/51 tomorrow.

And when we do get to 10,000 farmers and we will - I hope they realize what political power, market power and a unified voice can do for their farms. (the 1st guy to say we have that already with board - prepare to get flamed - think Avis Gray)

The 60,000 or so that we have today, havent.

And its hurting them.

The winds blow the sands of change slowly, you may argue, the problem is we are running out of time.

[freenorth]

Incognito what you say is true. The American and European farmer has power and influence the Canadian farmer does not. We end up relying on
pressures from foreign countries being the catalyst for the federal government to have the courage to make meaningful change. What a slow process and here we go again with the WTO timeframe but perhaps
we'll actually see some change . Regardless how bleak things look
we have to put them behind us and look ahead don't we.

[boone]

Incognito: We know change is inevitable, but it will always be too much too fast for the timid and too slow for the ones that think they can out manage the future. It's been my observation that politicians excepting the ones who curry favour or owe it. Are truly trying to lead as best they can without looking like following. So let's set that aside for now. What I can't accept is this blind ambition of the group that considers itself elite. Most vessels only float as high in the water as they do, because they are empty, and believe me when you peel the veneer back there are a lot of empties around. I listen to these forward thinking farmers describing how they would like to market for themselves, and just when I have given in to awe, they say something like, as long as we can get an ACT of God Clause to protect us from the market. Hello this is Vegas calling, Or better yet HONG KONG Craps. There won't be someone holding your "blanky" for you in the new world order. That stuff you feel running in your shoe is your entrails. That's may be okay if your spending grandpas money, but what if you really carved it out for yourself, that's gotta hurt. I can't go on about the WTO and what changes it will present. I'm kinda like our politicians on that one. I don't have the foggiest notion either. But what I know is this it ain't about makin it better for someone with clay on his boots. Here are a couple words to think about."The art of progress is to preserve order amid change, and to preserve change amid order".
Alfred North Whitehead

[Incognito]

LOL @ Act of God clauses. Don't know where you offset risk if you have one of those. Thanks for the post. I miss our banter.


If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet renounce controversy are people who want crops without ploughing the ground.

Frederick Douglass 1817-1895

[JD4ME]

Hope I'm not putting myself into a semi private conversation but I wanted to say I agree with just about everything that has been said previously here, theres no right or wrong way of doing alot of things the most important thing is doing the best job possible with what you've got. Whats the saying the only thing constant is change..(there are a lot of tractor seat philosophers on here isn't there myself included). Interesting in the whole fighting like hell behind closed doors and keeping a solid front when dealing with government statement. Those exact words were told me by the former president of the OFA,CFA and President of IFAP Jack Wilkinson.
Not that I think it would work in Alberta because we're all right and can't seem to get together . Here's something interesting because of their power in sticking together and some pretty strong actions the cull cows Quebec farmers have are today worth .42 cents a pound. Mine are maybe half that if I'm lucky.It may be unsustainable I'm certainly not privy to the economics of the deal but they got it by presenting a common front on something that was good for the majority of them they may have fought like hell inside the UPA offices but to the public and politicians they were united not something we see out west very often even over common sense things it's a little disheartening but until the day when we start working together at least on the common sense easy things we'll continue to be marginized by goverment and no I don't know what common sense is . Thanks for the space.

[wd9]

How do we know if boone and incognito are even two different people? Is there any acountability for what people say on this site? How different would the conversation be if we all knew who everyone was?

Incognito, funny you should bring this up because even though you and boone (assuming you are two different people )grow tired of it, the government doesn't. It is a dream world for them simply quoting a group representing 100,000 farmers which leaves them no accountability. And yeah, even a few in Ottawa read this site for its insightful comment. Care to guess how many bureaucrats even post here?

The vote isn't 49/51. It is 100/100/100/100/100 which leaves everyone and no one accountable, just like government, just like this site.

[freenorth]

So what's the answer Incognito. If we put all these very different organizations in the same room and try to build consensus the only thing
they'll agree on is improving crop insurance. There probably won't be a whole lot of vision with any real policy ......hmmmm kind of sounds like the Liberal party.

"The longer change is delayed the greater the size of the change will be"

[wd9]

A good start would be provincial organizations dealing with provincial issues and national ones dealing with national issues. This alone would be a great step forward.

[boone]

Post: Now that is a fairly shabby way to treat an old POSTER like Incognito, truth is we don't even cheer for the same non playing hockey team, and we regularly misspell considerably individual words. I've been broke but never a broker, but keeping with the status quo will not do for me. But we must work together to manage change. We all have a voice, we must all be considered.
"Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation."

-Robert Kennedy

[TOM4CWB]

Hay Boone;

Can we all work together to collect all irregularities in the CWB election that just closed voting Dec. 3rd???

[Incognito]

WD9:

Boone knows who I am. I know not whom he his. Advantage Boone. I could care less. This forum is the closest I've come to finding a group of Mensa candidates in this industry.

If you want to start the accountability right here - post your name. I used to post under my name and someone took exception to it in Agriville; therefore, INCOGNITO. I don't post any different today than I did then. With regards to bureaucrats reading this site - they do. I send it to them on occasion

Freenorth:

The best example of throwing all sides in the same room emanated from the Western Grain Marketing panel. Viewing the composition of the panel from the outside and the inside, I couldn’t decide whether it was 5 left, 5 right or 4 and 4 with one maybe for either side.

They worked hard to build consensus and ALL agreed to the recommendations put forth to Ralph Malph. Ralph just about puked when he saw the report. He designed that panel to fail and never ever thought they would reach consensus. But that’s the past. It is important to know the past though when you are looking to the future.

Today, farmers are polarized politically. In Saskatchewan, farmers send SK Party candidates to Regina and expect the NDP to hear them. In Western Canada, Conservatives are sent and farmers expect the Liberals to hear them. WD9: Accountability ends at the Manitoba border federally; and 2 miles outside of Regina and Saskatoon provincially. That polarization costs farmers politically and financially. I’m not suggesting rural SK run and vote NDP or western Canada vote LIB in the next election (most fathers and grandfathers are not buried deep enough) but some sensitivity to political power should be forethought and not an afterthought.

From my desk, I get to see farmers going broker (there u go Boone) and looking for answers. Some want freedom. Some want status quo. Most hate risk but despise risk management. As Boone pointed out – for some risk management is an Act Of God clause. All just want to be profitable, and not rely on gov’t for ANYTHING.

What’s the answer? Dust off the Panel Recommendations. There was something in that report for everyone… except Ralph.

[boone]

Yo! (better than Hay) you can relax I haven't got you pegged yet, actually I don't know Shinola from Copenhagen about you except when I scratched the commodity guys you blinked (recall). And the hockey jibe was for the gallery.
I have learned though that you can have diverse backgrounds and still find common ground if self interest isn't all that motivates your opinions.
Some days I too feel like banging my head on the floor, but this week and this next couple of months will give us all a chance to consider just how far we would like to advance as grain marketers. Let's do it right, and not become polarized. Who knows by then we might have a new group of players in the 'Peg.'
And as for mixing up our altered egos here, you know what I say "EGOS are like ICICLES the more you rub'm the clearer they get".

[Incognito]

Yo! Fonz:

Nay on the self-interest. A lesson learned from my grandfather:

It is your responsibilty to give back.

[freenorth]

The Western Grain Marketing Panel Report is the model consensus building exercise. They had a clear mandate and were determined to make recomendations. There were only 9 people. Even they in 96 recommended that:
- feed barley be removed from the CWB ASAP
- option of removing 25% of sales from the CWB pool
- asked for forward cash prices

A common theme as expressed in Hansard was " the panel rejected proposals that the current powers of the CWB be preserved and that the boards jurisdiction be expanded"

Boone when is that snap chapter test anyway!!!

Imagine where we'd be today if Ralph had implemented that report that cost taxpayers $1.5m instead of shelving it to collect dust. A good peice
of work for Directors of certain organizations to revisit.

"Dare to dream"

[wd9]

The Grain Growers of Canada presented the Trade Injury Compensation Program to the federal government a couple of years ago. Solid work on injury from tarriffs and subsidies which came out to $1.3 billion per year. The government agreed fully with the numbers and said GGC was accurate and true yet refused to compensate grains and oilseed producers. The work goes on in an even better group than the 'panel', yet so does NO from the government.