Health Care Talks

[jazz]

Narrative is already being driven for private delivery. Its the only thing that can save the system now.

Watch Smith recoil and stop herself from vomiting in the presence of our scumbag PM. Give him hell Dannielle.

https://twitter.com/Harry__Faulkner/...22440279425026

[rumrocks]

There will be a lot of self-discipline by everyone in that room, until the high sticking and slashing begins. I wouldn't consider it a success unless the medics were called in, after all its about Medicare.

[jazz]

Jaysus, how are we going to pay for this.

[shtferbrains]

More money fixes everything?

It's just funding. Not real money.

[shtferbrains]

I have no interest in going to a US copy of health care.

We have a good system once you get through the gate to see the actual caregivers.

I couldn't expect better care than I have seen anywhere.
The issues on the above slide are part of the problem.

Nurses union is also an obvious issue.
Many great nurses but they carry some dead weight.

Ms.Smith is going to butt heads to try get better value. That will mean less paper not more.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I have no interest in going to a US copy of health care.

Yes, but that black and white argument, that the only alternative is the US system, is what ends every discussion of improving healthcare before it even starts.

There exists some hallowed middle ground between the two extremes.

And unless we want healthcare expenses to consume our entire economy, or want to all die equally while waiting in line, we need to accept that the path we are on is not even remotely sustainable.

[sumdumguy]

The government tells us big shortage of nurses but two girls we know have been trying to get into nursing, one with 80’s average working at Boston Pizza for three years-can’t get in, the other, one semester away from Bachelor of Science with Psychology told there is a three-year wait. We need for the government to change this by opening more training positions for local students instead of clamouring all over the world to entice foreign nurses. Dentist told us nurses are being offered double wages to go to Ontario, leaving us desperately short of nurses.

[chuckChuck]

Provincial governments also have to step up and fix healthcare. Its primarily their responsibility to organize and run it.

Create more spaces for educating healthcare workers is one option to deal with the shortage of doctors and nurses. That again is a provincial responsibility.

If a private for profit delivery system competes for staff guess what will happen if the there are no more nurses and doctors to go around?

Doctors and nurses will be incentivized to move from the public system to the private system leaving the public system shorter than it already is.

Efficiency and outcomes can be improved in the public system if the will is there too do so. Its counterproductive to create a parallel private system that competes for staff.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Efficiency and outcomes can be improved in the public system if the will is there too do so. Its counterproductive to create a parallel private system that competes for staff.

Can you provide an example of a public system which had/has the will to improve efficiency and outcomes? The two are anathema to each other.

Competition on the other hand has the express purpose of improving efficiency and outcomes. So therefore, you dismiss that, just like a good Marxist.

[chuckChuck]

Tell us where the profit will come from in a for profit system?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Tell us where the profit will come from in a for profit system?

Within the current system, are the wages of doctors, and administrators and nurses and support staff, and layers upon layers of bureaucrats considered profit? Or are they all offering their services as charity?

[chuckChuck]

What??? Are you saying that the staff wont be paid for their work in a private system? Nice try to dodge the question.

Where will the profit come from?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

What??? Are you saying that the staff wont be paid for their work in a private system? Nice try to dodge the question.

Where will the profit come from?

No, I'm saying there are layers upon layers of (often) redundant staff collecting wages within the current bloated system. With no motivation to improve efficiency. All any private model has to do is incentivize the owners to minimize those costs, and the resulting profits are theirs to keep, for no additional cost to the end user. Except, the private providers are also competing with each other, so they are further motivated to pass those cost savings on to the consumer to attract business.

I don't know why I am trying to explain this to a Marxist though, these are of course completely alien concepts.

Speaking of which, I happened to stumble upon this cwb article recently, our very own Chuck featured in the Marxist Leninist daily. The daily online newspaper of the Communist Party of Canada. You must have been so proud.

https://cpcml.ca/Tmld2014/D44035.htm

[chuckChuck]

Having trouble staying focused today A5? You get so easily distracted calling everybody who disagrees with you a marxist or a commie? LOL

The US system has massive layers of insurance and healthcare bureaucracy and they spend a way more per capita for healthcare than we do without universal coverage and poorer outcomes for many low income uninsured people.

[Sheepwheat]

The profit comes from people who choose to pay for services. Is that so hard, chuck?