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Sep 17, 2022 | 11:12 61
Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
I see A5 disappeared after I suggested where to start on education after he insisted.

We could also make sure they have enough adequate housing and healthcare and programs to reduce the social problems many of which we caused by residential schools, and systemic racism.
Do they not have free post secondary and University education?
Not sure just asking Reply With Quote

  • cropgrower's Avatar Sep 17, 2022 | 11:48 62
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    I see A5 disappeared after I suggested where to start on education after he insisted.

    We could also make sure they have enough adequate housing and healthcare and programs to reduce the social problems many of which we caused by residential schools, and systemic racism.
    nobody stoping you from buying up some houses and giving them to them , you could also give them cash donations , practice what you preach , and this racisim you talk about is garbage , just more 🤮 from the haters that like to label people into groups
    Last edited by cropgrower; Sep 17, 2022 at 11:55.
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  • Sep 17, 2022 | 18:21 63
    Quote Originally Posted by cropgrower View Post
    nobody stoping you from buying up some houses and giving them to them , you could also give them cash donations , practice what you preach , and this racisim you talk about is garbage , just more 🤮 from the haters that like to label people into groups
    Think someone lives in a bubble of cognitive dissonance. I agree with education that is the way out. Far as funding more houses on the Rez should come with some responsibility. Past wrongs were wrong and we all know that but treating the present generation like a bunch of retards isn’t fair. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 17, 2022 | 21:31 64
    Quote Originally Posted by WiltonRanch View Post
    Think someone lives in a bubble of cognitive dissonance. I agree with education that is the way out. Far as funding more houses on the Rez should come with some responsibility. Past wrongs were wrong and we all know that but treating the present generation like a bunch of retards isn’t fair.
    Present generations are being treated like criminals. I dream of a day when every baby born in this country is given equal rights. Reply With Quote
    Sep 18, 2022 | 08:06 65 Education is indeed part of the solution. How that is done is up to federal and provincial governments and first nations to figure out.

    But we are not going back to the residential school model where students were ripped from their families and cultural genocide and many forms of abuse were the norm.

    But many on the right seem to want to downplay the impact colonization, racism, residential schools and the indian act had on first nations.

    First nations people on reserves are often living at 3rd world standards. And we designed and built the system they live under.

    So all Canadians have a responsibility in partnership with first nations to acknowledge and fix the problems we created. Reply With Quote
    Sep 18, 2022 | 08:11 66
    Quote Originally Posted by furrowtickler View Post
    Do they not have free post secondary and University education?
    Not sure just asking
    11. We call upon the federal government to provide adequate funding to end the backlog of First Nations students seeking a post-secondary education.

    They do if they graduate highs school but there is not enough funds according to the calls for action.

    There are a lot of roadblocks and challenges to post secondary education. Especially if underfunded on reserve schools don't prepare students well enough. Reply With Quote
    Sep 18, 2022 | 08:58 67
    Quote Originally Posted by cropgrower View Post
    nobody stoping you from buying up some houses and giving them to them , you could also give them cash donations , practice what you preach , and this racisim you talk about is garbage , just more 🤮 from the haters that like to label people into groups
    Well you must be living under a rock if you aren't aware of racism and systemic racism against first nations.

    The whole Indian act and history along with reserves is an example of systemic racism.

    Are you going to deny that we forced first nations onto reserves? Reply With Quote
    Sep 18, 2022 | 09:09 68
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    11. We call upon the federal government to provide adequate funding to end the backlog of First Nations students seeking a post-secondary education.

    They do if they graduate highs school but there is not enough funds according to the calls for action.

    There are a lot of roadblocks and challenges to post secondary education. Especially if underfunded on reserve schools don't prepare students well enough.
    Yes this is the problem. The basic k to 12 is underfunded and essentially a higher proportion of students are barely literate let alone prepared for post secondary education. Think the impact of colonization cannot be downplayed neither but part of truth and reconciliation is addressing this to see a path forward. Still needs to be give and take from both sides. Much as I’d like to live in the 1800’s herding cattle on the range some days I know that has changed and probably for the better if I cut my leg on barbed wire or a rattler bites through my boot I have antibiotics to fight off the infection and won’t lose my leg or die. Same goes with our native peoples they aren’t going back to a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle neither. Our government of the past tried to erase their culture and lifestyle but aside from reviving culture and the benefits it has for establishing pride and self worth, where does everyone go from there? Think this is the road block because it involves the idea of cutting them in on more land, and a cut of resource revenues. This country will fail to function with an added layer of red tape and how then is anything funded like adequate schooling and social programs to help natives and non natives in at risk situations. Reply With Quote
    cropgrower's Avatar Sep 18, 2022 | 10:30 69
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Well you must be living under a rock if you aren't aware of racism and systemic racism against first nations.

    The whole Indian act and history along with reserves is an example of systemic racism.

    Are you going to deny that we forced first nations onto reserves?
    lots of bad things happened years ago in lots of countrys , im from ireland and the irish people were treated terrible as well if you go back in history , what is hapening today is what counts , native people have more rights than ordinary canadains now , and reserves today dont have a big fence all around them , anybody can leave , get job, start buisness , buy property same as all the rest of us
    Last edited by cropgrower; Sep 18, 2022 at 10:52.
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  • Sep 19, 2022 | 07:47 70
    Quote Originally Posted by cropgrower View Post
    lots of bad things happened years ago in lots of countrys , im from ireland and the irish people were treated terrible as well if you go back in history , what is hapening today is what counts , native people have more rights than ordinary canadains now , and reserves today dont have a big fence all around them , anybody can leave , get job, start buisness , buy property same as all the rest of us
    You must live in a fantasy land where there are no barriers, poverty, or social problems to overcome on first nations.

    On most measures of first nations standards of living they score well below non first nations people and communities.

    What can you do with a poor education, little work experience, and when many people wont hire you?

    Plus there just are not very many jobs close to your home and you don't have the money, supports to move or succeed like most of us do. Reply With Quote
    Sep 19, 2022 | 08:17 71
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    You must live in a fantasy land where there are no barriers, poverty, or social problems to overcome on first nations.

    On most measures of first nations standards of living they score well below non first nations people and communities.

    What can you do with a poor education, little work experience, and when many people wont hire you?

    Plus there just are not very many jobs close to your home and you don't have the money, supports to move or succeed like most of us do.
    Think you have answered the biggest question many will not ask. The reserves and Indian act are what’s holding our natives back. You know the problem now let’s admit what the answer is. Quit clouding everything with the racist card. It gets to be as bad if not worse than the racists themselves. Treat people like a bunch of simpletons they’re going to be simpletons. Reply With Quote

  • cropgrower's Avatar Sep 19, 2022 | 09:22 72 we were taught growing up nobody owes us anything , if we want somthing work make money , save up and buy it , we know a couple that emigrated here with notting , came on a two year contract to work in pig barn , rented a house , wife worked in local foodstore , when they had enough cash saved up for deposit they got a small morgage and bought an old house in town , he fixed up house in spare time , when they had spare cash , when contract was done he moved on to a better job , so CC if people want to better themselves in this country it can be done ,
    Last edited by cropgrower; Sep 19, 2022 at 12:26.
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  • Sep 19, 2022 | 09:47 73
    Quote Originally Posted by WiltonRanch View Post
    Think you have answered the biggest question many will not ask. The reserves and Indian act are what’s holding our natives back. You know the problem now let’s admit what the answer is. Quit clouding everything with the racist card. It gets to be as bad if not worse than the racists themselves. Treat people like a bunch of simpletons they’re going to be simpletons.
    I was surprised to see Chuck get that close to the answer all by himself. Reply With Quote
    Sep 19, 2022 | 10:33 74
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    I was surprised to see Chuck get that close to the answer all by himself.
    Precisely. Think a lot of us get stuck in our camps and get downright defensive with those not in our camp even though we are in agreement on issues. Chuck is a caustic personality but let’s face it he does spark on some good discussion and challenges our own beliefs. Still it should be give and take for a discussion to progress instead of devolve into a pissing match. I find it kinda funny a bunch of non natives on here discussing what to do with our native peoples. Wish there were same native folks brave enough to come here and lay it out instead of getting it second hand from Chuck. I’ve talked to natives who say the same stuff and who might have solutions. From the horses mouth is a lot better. Reply With Quote

  • Sep 20, 2022 | 07:28 75 There is plenty of input in the media from first nations leaders and individuals to have an informed discussion.

    But I think you are looking for opinions from first nations that agree with yours? LOL Reply With Quote
    Sep 20, 2022 | 07:54 76
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    There is plenty of input in the media from first nations leaders and individuals to have an informed discussion.

    But I think you are looking for opinions from first nations that agree with yours? LOL
    So says the guy who is using first Nations as a pawn in his crusade against resource development. Meanwhile according to the poll I posted above, the majority of first Nations are in favor of said development. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 20, 2022 | 08:03 77
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    There is plenty of input in the media from first nations leaders and individuals to have an informed discussion.

    But I think you are looking for opinions from first nations that agree with yours? LOL
    the only opposition is coming from "hereditary chiefs" these bought and paid for pricks have never been voted in and need to shut their mouths Reply With Quote
    Sep 21, 2022 | 08:13 78 Yes first nations want responsible resource development in which they share in the benefits. No surprise there.

    So are you prepared to give first nations their share of resource development on their former lands? Along with a say in how the resources are developed? Reply With Quote
    Sep 21, 2022 | 12:14 79
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Yes first nations want responsible resource development in which they share in the benefits. No surprise there.

    So are you prepared to give first nations their share of resource development on their former lands? Along with a say in how the resources are developed?
    This is what it all comes down to. My question though if their cut eclipses the budget of Indian affairs how does that work? How is this money distributed? If every nation is its own sovereign group then why should they share the wealth with other nations? I can see internal turmoil at the FSIN. What about Métis? What is their cut? With the fluid nature of territorial borders on the plains who lays claim to certain areas? What was established in the day was just a snapshot of that time. My area was all Blackfoot but now Cree claim it but traditionally they stayed north of the river. It’s a valid set of concerns cause any resource developers will not touch a thing until natives and government get their act together. I suppose Chuck this suits your agenda of hampering resource extraction but it puts native people in a worse situation being able to benefit from their own resources. Reply With Quote

  • Sep 21, 2022 | 15:05 80 Wilton ranch, there is a very simple solution to all of those very real issues you pointed out. Chuck as we all know is a big proponent of equalization. So it doesn't matter who claims what territory, since everyone will just share the wealth equally across the country. After all, how many times has Chuck made snide comments about those who are born in a province with resource revenue versus those who aren't, the same obviously applies in this situation. In fact, there's nothing stopping anyone from applying that right now, the entrepreneurial first Nations around fort McMurray who are working very hardcould be sharing the wealth with those in the poorest areas of Saskatchewan. Reply With Quote

  • Sep 21, 2022 | 17:08 81 I think Chuck means we start negotiating retroactive shares on every resource extraction since "settlement". Reply With Quote

  • Sep 21, 2022 | 17:17 82 One would be downright naïve if they thought relations amongst bands of the same tribe let alone different tribes is acrimonious. Talk about driving a wedge in a shaky relationship. Reply With Quote
    Sep 21, 2022 | 22:39 83
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Yes first nations want responsible resource development in which they share in the benefits. No surprise there.

    So are you prepared to give first nations their share of resource development on their former lands? Along with a say in how the resources are developed?
    Without a written language historically, how are we to know the accuracy of former boundaries passed down through word of mouth? Without written record that you, chuck, owned your land, do you think people three thousand years from now would or could ever know that chuckchuck owned the land? If you wandered aimlessly across hundreds of miles looking for your next meal, does every acre you wandered across automatically fall into your possession?

    That’s what I thought. My point is, they can say anything they want. “From this River to that River, our ancestors hunted there previously, so it’s our land”. Says who? Great great great great great great great grandpa? How accurate are unwritten histories typically? Well, about as accurate as the last guy in line. Like the old game of telephone. We are expected to just accept unwritten history? That it was passed on for generations with exceptional accuracy? Interesting.

    Read the Kelsey papers. Read the Palliser expedition writings. Life out here was not nearly so romantic and pleasant and idilic and “cultural” as current revisionist histories would have the average person believe. It was absolutely brutal. Starvation was typical and rampant. Kelsey barely survived with his native guides half the time, ate seagulls and seagull eggs to survive. Palliser often rescued starving natives by sharing his provisions. Once he got west, over the mountains, crops were grown, there were settlements.

    Because one wanderers over a landscape, it is all automatically owned by them… in perpetuity too. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 21, 2022 | 23:09 84
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepwheat View Post
    Without a written language historically, how are we to know the accuracy of former boundaries passed down through word of mouth? Without written record that you, chuck, owned your land, do you think people three thousand years from now would or could ever know that chuckchuck owned the land? If you wandered aimlessly across hundreds of miles looking for your next meal, does every acre you wandered across automatically fall into your possession?

    Because one wanderers over a landscape, it is all automatically owned by them… in perpetuity too.
    I see what your saying,,, it would be like them claiming the Pacific Ocean, just because they slept on their rafts many nights, caught some fish or killed a whale,,, all while they floated to North America from where ever, maybe from China IDK??? Reply With Quote
    Sep 22, 2022 | 07:31 85 Did you forget that there were numerous treaties signed that detailed the lands covered? More conservative collective amnesia? LOL Reply With Quote
    Sep 22, 2022 | 07:35 86
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Did you forget that there were numerous treaties signed that detailed the lands covered? More conservative collective amnesia? LOL
    At that point in time. Reply With Quote
    Sep 22, 2022 | 07:36 87 Treaties are still in place and land claims are an ongoing process.

    In some cases treaties were not signed.

    Most of the territory of British Columbia was never ceded by the Indigenous Peoples of the land. These Indigenous Peoples have been living on their land for at least 14,000 years, while British Columbia, first a colony now a province, has been around for about 160 years. The cultures, governments, and legal systems of many First Nation Peoples in the region were never extinguished.
    Last edited by chuckChuck; Sep 22, 2022 at 07:43.
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    Sep 22, 2022 | 08:14 88 Further to my previous post, and taking Chuck's equalization and resentment of anyone "born" into resource wealth notion to the absurd extreme. And just in case no one caught the sarcasm in my previous post...

    Since the first nations were born into the resource wealth of the land they claim, and the landless colonists weren't so lucky, why not give all of the resource revenue to the decendants of those first nations, then through an elaborate and grossly unfair formula, redistribute that wealth to all of those unfortunate citizens who did not win the genetic lottery of being born into resource riches. See how long they are willing to work to create wealth from their own resources, and how long before most of us colonists decide to hit the easy button and just live off the equalization payments.

    I think this experiment has been tried before on a more national scale. Seems to be a spectacular failure by all measures. But for sure it will work this time. Reply With Quote
    Sep 22, 2022 | 11:09 89 I see Alberta is getting an Dehaviland factory and research facility.

    So much for the right wing nut idea Canada has no manufacturing or productive industries other than resources like oil and gas.

    That airplane thing will never work in Alberta! Its gotta be oil or nothing! LOL Reply With Quote
    Sep 22, 2022 | 13:29 90
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    I see Alberta is getting an Dehaviland factory and research facility.

    So much for the right wing nut idea Canada has no manufacturing or productive industries other than resources like oil and gas.

    That airplane thing will never work in Alberta! Its gotta be oil or nothing! LOL
    Quit being simple. Great Alberta is getting a factory. No one ever said what you just said. Saskatchewan has lots of manufacturing and industries associated and not associated with oil and gas and agriculture. What is your point. Oil and gas is still the anchor industry in Alberta. You’re being flippant. Grow the f up!! Reply With Quote
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