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Dutch precision edge

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Oct 24, 2021 | 12:07 1 New drill prices have me throwing up in my mouth a bit. Decided to put money into my current drill and run it for a few more years. Currently run a flexicoil 5000 type drill with Dutch low draft openers.

Was snooping around last year and looked hard at the atom jet high rate side band, but wanting to continue paired row if I can help it. Or is the high rate side band THE way to go?

Anybody using the Dutch precision edge? Looks interesting. Reply With Quote
jazz's Avatar Oct 24, 2021 | 12:21 2
Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
Looks interesting.
Looks sort of like a boat anchor.

We went totally backwards these past few yrs. With the dry springs we have gone back to narrow tips on the drill. Our N and S is now coated and going down broadcast ahead of the drill. Trickle in some phos and ESN with the seed. Easily cuts down a few days at seeding, way less HP and fuel. Seed durum and lentils at 5.5 mph now. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 24, 2021 | 12:40 3 If I remember Dutch precision edge reminds me of a stealth opener. I remember going from stealth to Dutch low draft and remembering 2 things that they pulled easier and pulled up less rocks. Was never happy with canola germ on Dutch low draft. In 2014 when I bought my present Flexicoil 5000 I had atomjet 3/4 inch side band openers put on it. I thought it hurt my cereal yields and put fertilizer to close to the seed on canola. Then I went to 1 inch atomjet high rate side band. With cereals tried putting seed out the side and out the back. Works way better out the back, only downside is fert does plug once and a while going out the side. With canola put seed out the side, fert out the back works awesome. This year did an interesting trial. Neighbour had some Sirish seed left in his drill. Seeded 11 acres, he uses Dutch low draft. I seeded Austenson beside it. Our fert was close to the same. We did 3 replications down and back with the combine, each was approx. 2 acres. Weighed in our cart. Austenson out yielded it by 3 bushels per acre. The point is in my opinion the atomjet didn’t hurt the yield, have to admit I was surprised. Both varieties were certified, seeded at 3 bushels per acre. I use seed treat, he does not. We use 41/4 inch rubber capped packers and I don’t have the harrow closers on the drill, always seemed to plug with trash. The one inch stealth high rate side band do pull harder than the standard side band but in my opinion pull less rocks than either stealth or Dutch low draft.. Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 12:47 4
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Looks sort of like a boat anchor.

    We went totally backwards these past few yrs. With the dry springs we have gone back to narrow tips on the drill. Our N and S is now coated and going down broadcast ahead of the drill. Trickle in some phos and ESN with the seed. Easily cuts down a few days at seeding, way less HP and fuel. Seed durum and lentils at 5.5 mph now.
    It is a lower disturbance version of the regular Dutch precision is it not? Very narrow fert trench with a sealer plate that tucks the seed into either side of the trench? I understand it will move more dirt than a 1 inch single shoot opener, but I think it will be way less than a flexicoil stealth. The Dutch precision was a fairly good opener in my understanding. This seems to improve on that design in my mind. Although, we desire different qualities in the north I suppose than around Regina. Making a distinct black furrow to warm the soil up is high on our priority list.

    What is your opener of choice jazz? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 12:57 5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
    If I remember Dutch precision edge reminds me of a stealth opener. I remember going from stealth to Dutch low draft and remembering 2 things that they pulled easier and pulled up less rocks. Was never happy with canola germ on Dutch low draft. In 2014 when I bought my present Flexicoil 5000 I had atomjet 3/4 inch side band openers put on it. I thought it hurt my cereal yields and put fertilizer to close to the seed on canola. Then I went to 1 inch atomjet high rate side band. With cereals tried putting seed out the side and out the back. Works way better out the back, only downside is fert does plug once and a while going out the side. With canola put seed out the side, fert out the back works awesome. This year did an interesting trial. Neighbour had some Sirish seed left in his drill. Seeded 11 acres, he uses Dutch low draft. I seeded Austenson beside it. Our fert was close to the same. We did 3 replications down and back with the combine, each was approx. 2 acres. Weighed in our cart. Austenson out yielded it by 3 bushels per acre. The point is in my opinion the atomjet didn’t hurt the yield, have to admit I was surprised. Both varieties were certified, seeded at 3 bushels per acre. I use seed treat, he does not. We use 41/4 inch rubber capped packers and I don’t have the harrow closers on the drill, always seemed to plug with trash. The one inch stealth high rate side band do pull harder than the standard side band but in my opinion pull less rocks than either stealth or Dutch low draft..
    Yes. Dutch low draft work well in cereals, but fall behind on canola in my opinion as well. That is the reason for looking at switching.

    I do not like shattering the seed bed below the seed like the precision/stealth do. Do the atom jet hold up well in rocks? Seems we have our fair share up here. How wide of a seed row do you achieve by putting the cereals out the back? Would it hold a swath up on 10” spacing?
    Last edited by flea beetle; Oct 24, 2021 at 19:15.
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    Oct 24, 2021 | 13:12 6
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    Yes. Dutch low draft work well in cereals, but fall behind on canola in my opinion as well. That is the reason for looking at switching.

    I do like not shattering the seed bed below the seed like the precision/stealth do. Do the atom jet hold up well in rocks? Seems we have our fair share up here. How wide of a seed row do you achieve by putting the cereals out the back? Would it hold a swath up on 10” spacing?
    I have only knocked off a couple of carbides in 6000 acres. The stubble would be roughly 21/2 to 3 inches wide going out the back and 11/2 to 2 inches wide going out the side imo. In a year with good yields no problem. I roll all my cereals so if I am concerned when swathing I cut at 90 degrees to the way it was seeded if possible. You can get them with a 3/4 inch Center or 1 inch Center I believe. If I ordered them again I would be tempted to try the 3/4 inch but that might be counter productive as it would narrow the seed row. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 24, 2021 | 13:15 7
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    Yes. Dutch low draft work well in cereals, but fall behind on canola in my opinion as well. That is the reason for looking at switching.

    I do like not shattering the seed bed below the seed like the precision/stealth do. Do the atom jet hold up well in rocks? Seems we have our fair share up here. How wide of a seed row do you achieve by putting the cereals out the back? Would it hold a swath up on 10” spacing?
    The Dutch opener would have better seed and Fert separation but the fracturing of the soil might hurt canola germination, not sure. I certainly think the Dutch precision opener is interesting, tough call. Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 13:24 8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
    The Dutch opener would have better seed and Fert separation but the fracturing of the soil might hurt canola germination, not sure. I certainly think the Dutch precision opener is interesting, tough call.
    Yes. It seems to me there is a poster on here that had the precision edge when they first came out, but I cannot find the thread now. My concern is tearing the seedbed out with that knife down the middle…especially when it gets dry. Otherwise looks pretty good.

    I really like your idea with the atom jet of switching the cereals out the back to achieve a wider row. Makes the decision very hard now!🤣 Reply With Quote
    jazz's Avatar Oct 24, 2021 | 14:08 9
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    What is your opener of choice jazz?
    We were using a Dutch 3.5 inch spread tip putting all our fertility down with the seed using ESN.

    It takes big HP to pull that when seeding 2 inch deep in wet gumbo.

    But it had a draw back. When wet pulls up lumps, when dry pulled up lumps too and made for a very uneven seed bed and uneven emergence.

    I dont have the budget to replace drill and tractor so we went back to broadcasting and seeding with 3/4 inch bourgalt knives. Much less disturbance. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 24, 2021 | 14:09 10
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    Yes. It seems to me there is a poster on here that had the precision edge when they first came out, but I cannot find the thread now. My concern is tearing the seedbed out with that knife down the middle…especially when it gets dry. Otherwise looks pretty good.

    I really like your idea with the atom jet of switching the cereals out the back to achieve a wider row. Makes the decision very hard now!🤣
    Sorry, didn’t mean to complicate your decision, it is a topic I have thought a lot about. Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 15:16 11
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    We were using a Dutch 3.5 inch spread tip putting all our fertility down with the seed using ESN.

    It takes big HP to pull that when seeding 2 inch deep in wet gumbo.

    But it had a draw back. When wet pulls up lumps, when dry pulled up lumps too and made for a very uneven seed bed and uneven emergence.

    I dont have the budget to replace drill and tractor so we went back to broadcasting and seeding with 3/4 inch bourgalt knives. Much less disturbance.
    I totally understand your desire to want narrow openers in gumbo, and being a fair bit south of us. Sounds like you have it figured for your region! Reply With Quote
    blackpowder's Avatar Oct 24, 2021 | 15:18 12 All different situations of course.
    The excellent value in select used drills sometimes leads to a compromise.
    Current NH 2060 has 4" rubber packers.
    Came with worn Dutch low draft closed bottoms. Did not like in 2020.
    Replaced with 4" AJ paired row liquid.
    Liquid stays neatly in that 1/16" groove. Seed stays in rows against trench wall. Openers stay in ground. Bounce off rocks very well. Less speed sensitive. Better canola placement definitely although I do have trouble regulating my air somewhat, giving a little spread and bounce away from trench wall. Less dirt throw by far. Decreased trash flow ability though. For me a lot better than low drafts. Less draft than any stealth style by far I'm led to believe although haven't personally used.
    Definitely keeping them. Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 15:22 13 Jazz - are you incorporating your broadcast or just following with the drill? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 15:25 14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
    Sorry, didn’t mean to complicate your decision, it is a topic I have thought a lot about.
    Don't be sorry at all. I have been flopping back and forth between the two for a year now. Seems there aren't a lot of opinions on the precision edge though. Must not be many guys running them yet?

    Lots of 1870 deere drills here. But wanting to stay 10" or narrower for cereals. One drill that caught my eye is the Case 900/New Holland 2075 with CNH's side band opener on 10" spacing? But for some reason resale on them seems very poor. Is there something I am missing? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 15:30 15
    Quote Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
    All different situations of course.
    The excellent value in select used drills sometimes leads to a compromise.
    Current NH 2060 has 4" rubber packers.
    Came with worn Dutch low draft closed bottoms. Did not like in 2020.
    Replaced with 4" AJ paired row liquid.
    Liquid stays neatly in that 1/16" groove. Seed stays in rows against trench wall. Openers stay in ground. Bounce off rocks very well. Less speed sensitive. Better canola placement definitely although I do have trouble regulating my air somewhat, giving a little spread and bounce away from trench wall. Less dirt throw by far. Decreased trash flow ability though. For me a lot better than low drafts. Less draft than any stealth style by far I'm led to believe although haven't personally used.
    Definitely keeping them.
    So even though the AJ paired row looks very similar to dutch, they are considerably better on seed placement?

    Does the 2060 follow the ground better than a 2050? Each section is independent of each other? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 15:31 16 I think resale is poor just because it isn’t a BG or other top 3 drill brands. I think you either buy for value on your dollar or pay more and buy for future resale.
    I use the atom jet side band and am satisfied, no rock damage and I have plenty. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 24, 2021 | 17:28 17 https://www.agriville.com/threads/35802-Any-advice-on-air-drill-openers Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 17:44 18 You had me interested in the precision edge. I use the precision double shoot paired row, and it causes a lot of disturbance, really affecting the integrity of the supposed seed shelf.
    But I see the edge is only available for liquid or NH3. I use all granular. So this isn't an option.

    Are there options out there that would achieve the same placement as what I have, without tearing the seed bed apart so much?

    This is in grey wooded clay, which back when we did tillage made lumps the size of basketballs, which aren't idea for seeding canola.

    The other issue is that I almost always seed into mud, and it sticks to the openers making them cut an even bigger channel. Has anyone used the dutch openers designed for mud? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:23 19
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    You had me interested in the precision edge. I use the precision double shoot paired row, and it causes a lot of disturbance, really affecting the integrity of the supposed seed shelf.
    But I see the edge is only available for liquid or NH3. I use all granular. So this isn't an option.

    Are there options out there that would achieve the same placement as what I have, without tearing the seed bed apart so much?

    This is in grey wooded clay, which back when we did tillage made lumps the size of basketballs, which aren't idea for seeding canola.

    The other issue is that I almost always seed into mud, and it sticks to the openers making them cut an even bigger channel. Has anyone used the dutch openers designed for mud?
    I think they make a dry fert version as well. Instead of the liquid tube in front of the shank, they put a dry fert tube behind the seed tube. I run all dry as well.
    Last edited by flea beetle; Oct 24, 2021 at 18:37.
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    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:23 20
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    We were using a Dutch 3.5 inch spread tip putting all our fertility down with the seed using ESN.

    It takes big HP to pull that when seeding 2 inch deep in wet gumbo.

    But it had a draw back. When wet pulls up lumps, when dry pulled up lumps too and made for a very uneven seed bed and uneven emergence.

    I dont have the budget to replace drill and tractor so we went back to broadcasting and seeding with 3/4 inch bourgalt knives. Much less disturbance.
    If you seeded 2” deep in wet gumbo here you’d be reseeding
    I really like atom jet
    Side band , same plane .have put 350 lbs product with seed never a problem
    Very low disturbance
    Simple and good for 25000 ac minimum in this dirt Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:26 21
    Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
    If you seeded 2” deep in wet gumbo here you’d be reseeding
    I really like atom jet
    Side band , same plane .have put 350 lbs product with seed never a problem
    Very low disturbance
    Simple and good for 25000 ac minimum in this dirt
    Is that the regular side band, or the high rate side band you are talking? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:31 22
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    I think they make a dry fert version as well. Instead of the liquid tube in front of the shank, they put a dry fert tube behind the seed tube. I run all dry as well.
    In that arrangement, what depth is the fertilizer supposed to end up at? Reply With Quote
    jazz's Avatar Oct 24, 2021 | 18:36 23
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
    Jazz - are you incorporating your broadcast or just following with the drill?
    No incorporation, just run over with the drill. Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:40 24
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    In that arrangement, what depth is the fertilizer supposed to end up at?
    Your guess is as good as mine. Not much info out there about them. Granular was a bit of an afterthought it seems.

    Download the 2022 catalogue on Dutch’s website and go to page 40-41 to see what it looks like.

    If they could make their spur series in a granular, I would look at that one as well, but alas…the search continues!
    Last edited by flea beetle; Oct 24, 2021 at 18:45.
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    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:42 25
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    Is that the regular side band, or the high rate side band you are talking?
    just regular , one side only
    these have been on since 07 Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:46 26
    Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
    just regular , one side only
    these have been on since 07
    That is pretty impressive to get 350 lbs safely with that opener! Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:48 27 atom jet has a policy where you can use them for a year
    if you don't like them they take them back
    i asked him if he had any discounted ones that were used a year but he said no one ever brings them back Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 18:52 28
    Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
    atom jet has a policy where you can use them for a year
    if you don't like them they take them back
    i asked him if he had any discounted ones that were used a year but he said no one ever brings them back
    Well that says something for sure. Do you guys think there is a difference in seed placement between atom jets side band openers and paired row? I assume side band would have less variance in depth seeding shallow like for canola? Reply With Quote
    Oct 24, 2021 | 19:02 29
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    That is pretty impressive to get 350 lbs safely with that opener!
    we are normally wetter , was wondering this year being so dry , but no problems
    dont do 350 a lot but 250-275 all the time
    heres a barley blend , 90-35-15-0, 272 lbs product
    i think we have gone to 50-35-0-20 with canola , maybe 225 lbs act
    but for speed and easy we try to put 85 lbs juice in the fall, float 150 lbs fines in the fall and put 25-35-0-0 right beside seed with canola all the time Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 24, 2021 | 19:06 30
    Quote Originally Posted by flea beetle View Post
    Well that says something for sure. Do you guys think there is a difference in seed placement between atom jets side band openers and paired row? I assume side band would have less variance in depth seeding shallow like for canola?
    our morris tank you can do either by flipping a lever
    centre through the point is way better for us with a pointed packer, and a tenth really wets bottom of run where seed is
    flat packers might be different , friend has a flexi with paired row openers like us and rubber packers, he seeds paired all the time Reply With Quote