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Oct 8, 2021 | 08:13 1 John Andrus, Executive Director of Project Confederation - this is an excerpt from a presentation he made:

Back in 1998, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled - in the Quebec Secession Reference - that in the event any province passed a resolution on the floor of their legislature regarding a specific constitutional point, as long as that resolution was clear, that the country had a “duty to negotiate” with that province. This is why the referendum question is worded in this way:

"Should Section 36(2) of the Constitution Act, 1982 — Parliament and the Government of Canada’s commitment to the principle of making equalization payments — be removed from the Constitution?"

That’s a clear question. There are those that have proposed changes to the equalization formula, however, that is entirely set and controlled by Parliament - which, as I pointed out earlier, is represented by 199 out of the 338 seats in the House of Commons. Attempts to renegotiate or change the formula would - from a legal perspective - hold no weight, as the Supreme Court ruling in 1998 outlined, since the formula is not in the constitution.

The principle of equalization, however, is outlined in Section 36(2) of the Constitution - which reads:

“Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.”

So, why a referendum?

The simplest explanation for this is that, according to Alberta provincial law, as outlined in the “Constitutional Referendum Act,” The Alberta Legislature cannot pass any constitutional resolution without first having the approval of the Alberta public, as ascertained through the holding a constitutional referendum with a clear question. Therefore, according to law, the only way to trigger Ottawa’s duty to negotiate the issue of equalization is to hold a referendum to remove section 36(2) from the constitution, and win that referendum with a clear “Yes.”

This is by no means a meaningless referendum. It is the opposite. It is entirely necessary in order to advance the cause of independence - whether that be independence within the country or independence outside of it. For Ottawa to ignore the results of the referendum would be a clear signal from them that they do not care, that we are nothing but a colony to them used solely to take our money, minimize our power and rule us as if we are simple subjects without a say. If that’s what they think of us, then it will become clear to the majority of Albertans who voted on October 18 to remove section 36(2) that Ottawa is not listening, and will never listen. This is possibly the most important provincial referendum we have ever voted in.

The only way to demonstrate clearly that constitutional reform is required to strengthen national unity and give Alberta an equal footing in this perhaps doomed confederation is to win this referendum.

A loss would be a major setback, not just for those fighting for a fair deal, but for those who believe in independence, too. It is not a “red herring,” nor is it a waste of time. It is absolutely essential to the entire subsection of the Alberta population who believes that Alberta is not getting a fair deal.

If we lose this referendum, whether you like it or not, we are screwed. And for the separatists who I know are going to be coming at me for this, I leave you with this:

How do you expect to win a referendum on independence if we can’t even win a referendum on equalization?

Whether you want more independence for Alberta within Canada or complete independence for Alberta outside Canada, the equalization referendum is only the first step.

But in either scenario, it is an absolutely necessary step and one we cannot afford to lose.

So vote yes.

https://www.projectconfederation.ca/ Reply With Quote
Oct 8, 2021 | 08:23 2
Quote Originally Posted by littledoggie View Post
John Andrus, Executive Director of Project Confederation - this is an excerpt from a presentation he made:

Back in 1998, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled - in the Quebec Secession Reference - that in the event any province passed a resolution on the floor of their legislature regarding a specific constitutional point, as long as that resolution was clear, that the country had a “duty to negotiate” with that province. This is why the referendum question is worded in this way:

"Should Section 36(2) of the Constitution Act, 1982 — Parliament and the Government of Canada’s commitment to the principle of making equalization payments — be removed from the Constitution?"

That’s a clear question. There are those that have proposed changes to the equalization formula, however, that is entirely set and controlled by Parliament - which, as I pointed out earlier, is represented by 199 out of the 338 seats in the House of Commons. Attempts to renegotiate or change the formula would - from a legal perspective - hold no weight, as the Supreme Court ruling in 1998 outlined, since the formula is not in the constitution.

The principle of equalization, however, is outlined in Section 36(2) of the Constitution - which reads:

“Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.”

So, why a referendum?

The simplest explanation for this is that, according to Alberta provincial law, as outlined in the “Constitutional Referendum Act,” The Alberta Legislature cannot pass any constitutional resolution without first having the approval of the Alberta public, as ascertained through the holding a constitutional referendum with a clear question. Therefore, according to law, the only way to trigger Ottawa’s duty to negotiate the issue of equalization is to hold a referendum to remove section 36(2) from the constitution, and win that referendum with a clear “Yes.”

This is by no means a meaningless referendum. It is the opposite. It is entirely necessary in order to advance the cause of independence - whether that be independence within the country or independence outside of it. For Ottawa to ignore the results of the referendum would be a clear signal from them that they do not care, that we are nothing but a colony to them used solely to take our money, minimize our power and rule us as if we are simple subjects without a say. If that’s what they think of us, then it will become clear to the majority of Albertans who voted on October 18 to remove section 36(2) that Ottawa is not listening, and will never listen. This is possibly the most important provincial referendum we have ever voted in.

The only way to demonstrate clearly that constitutional reform is required to strengthen national unity and give Alberta an equal footing in this perhaps doomed confederation is to win this referendum.

A loss would be a major setback, not just for those fighting for a fair deal, but for those who believe in independence, too. It is not a “red herring,” nor is it a waste of time. It is absolutely essential to the entire subsection of the Alberta population who believes that Alberta is not getting a fair deal.

If we lose this referendum, whether you like it or not, we are screwed. And for the separatists who I know are going to be coming at me for this, I leave you with this:

How do you expect to win a referendum on independence if we can’t even win a referendum on equalization?

Whether you want more independence for Alberta within Canada or complete independence for Alberta outside Canada, the equalization referendum is only the first step.

But in either scenario, it is an absolutely necessary step and one we cannot afford to lose.

So vote yes.

https://www.projectconfederation.ca/
A can of worms not related to commodity marketing. But it does touch on the very premise of why there is a confederation of provinces. Tread carefully. Reply With Quote
jazz's Avatar Oct 8, 2021 | 08:24 3 Expect a loss from the upcoming referendum. People too freaked out from covid to take the kind of risk to better their long term lives. I expect something like 40% yes.

And with an oil boom coming in to view, we will have missed our last opportunity. Kennys not the guy to lead either outcome. Way too weak and cautious. Reply With Quote
ajl
Oct 8, 2021 | 10:50 4 I will of course be supportive of this resolution on the 18th. You would hardly know it is happening as nothing else makes the news other than supposed hospital overload. I guess that is by design. Kenney has been the biggest disappointment ever and it is now obvious that he is not a friend of the people of Alberta but their enemy. It was imperative in 2019 to get rid of red Rachel but now Kenney is doing what Rachel would have done. I certainly did not vote for that. So anyways this is ending up as the silent referendum. Reply With Quote

  • Oct 8, 2021 | 11:43 5 I wish I lived in Alberta so I could vote and help the cause. Hopefully all the young people will take the torch and vote for separation.The signal needs to be sent, loud and clear.
    Last edited by sumdumguy; Oct 8, 2021 at 11:56.
    Reply With Quote

  • blackpowder's Avatar Oct 8, 2021 | 12:12 6 The equalization referendum is a shell game. It will not go anywhere in Ottawa. It is a popularity game for Kenney.
    A fine idea in principle but useless. What works for Quebec will never be allowed for the rest of us.
    Seriously, do we really want Rachel back? Sounds like it. We should be united in turning our frustrations on Ottawa but instead we will consume ourselves. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • Oct 8, 2021 | 12:58 7 must be hard for Rona who is from Valleyview to watch fellow albertans like Chrysta and Kenney pillage their fine province ?????
    we need politicians like her again Reply With Quote

  • jazz's Avatar Oct 17, 2021 | 15:05 8 Tomorrows the day AB. Whats it going to be? Take it from Trudeau for another decade or get some fight in your bones?

    Based on the covid cult response in that province, I expect the referendum to be a big dud that Trudeau will crow about forever.

    Big missed opportunity with a decade long oil supercycle coming into view. Reply With Quote
    Oct 17, 2021 | 16:30 9 With the amount of new taxes the feds want. 10 paid sick days, raise Cpp. Most employers are in for a real squeeze. The workers and lazy will figure it’s a good thing. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 17, 2021 | 16:33 10 Alberta is a far different place demographically than 20 years ago. Many imports who don’t share the same politics and values like most albertans once did. Oil patch has changed immeasurably since it crashed 6 years ago. Less manpower needed to produce a barrel and less need for oilfield workers. In a way this is good as it then means we don’t need the extra people who have a good chance of being unemployed in downturns. Edmonton can live on itself, Calgary not so much. Reply With Quote
    Oct 17, 2021 | 18:57 11 I hope all the guys who depend on the oil patch have talked to their parents and young uns and tells them how important this referendum is. A 60% Yes would open some Eastern eyes. “ When Eastern Eyes Aren’t Smiling”.

    Maybe need to use Dominion Counting Machines. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • jazz's Avatar Oct 17, 2021 | 19:33 12
    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    A 60% Yes would open some Eastern eyes. “
    The referendum isnt for eastern eyes. Its not even for constitutional reform or negotiations. Trudeau will ignore the outcome.

    Its really a green light from the people to take a much more aggressive stance with ottawa. For some reason Kenny wont just do whats right for the province so he has to have this little referendum as his shield. Its a very weak approach IMO. He better get his azz out this covid funk and find some backbone or Notley will be back in there. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • jazz's Avatar Oct 18, 2021 | 22:57 13 OMG Alberta what have you done?

    Sohi in as Edmonton mayor. FFS

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/municipal-election-1.6212915 Reply With Quote
    Oct 19, 2021 | 06:55 14
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    OMG Alberta what have you done?

    Sohi in as Edmonton mayor. FFS

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/municipal-election-1.6212915
    Why's that Jazz?

    Because he immigrated from India at 18 with nothing and worked his ass off as a bus driver in Edmonton and got ahead.

    Pubic office awaits you. Reply With Quote

  • Oct 19, 2021 | 07:28 15 Looks like some of the bigots aren't happy with the results in Edmonton and Calgary. No surprise there.

    Here is an exchange on Twitter between Trevor Tombe and economist at the U of C who studies Equalization and Dan McTeaugue

    Dan McTeague
    @GasPriceWizard
    · Oct 14
    Revenues from Hydro Quebec are not included as govt revenues whereas Ontario Hydro 1 and OPG are. That’s why Quebec is able to show a revenue shortfall that Ontario cannot twitter.com/alexj28833702/…

    Trevor Tombe
    @trevortombe
    This is a very common but entirely false claim. Hydro Quebec revenues are included. 2019/20, for example, included $2.2b from Hydro QC + $800m from water power rentals.

    As the referendum approaches, it will be increasingly important to get information from reputable sources.

    Trevor Tombe
    @trevortombe
    ·
    Oct 15
    Replying to
    @trevortombe
    The level of misunderstanding around this program is staggering -- and unfortunately it also seems to be inversely related to the intensity of view about it. Reply With Quote
    Oct 19, 2021 | 07:37 16 Kenney was in Harpers government when there was opportunities to significantly change the equalization program. They didn't do it.

    Now Kenney, premier of the highest income per capita province wants to play politics with a meaningless referendum on a federal transfer program they don't control.

    And of course some Albertans want to pay low taxes and then expect to have all the benefits of quality healthcare, education and infrastructure but they don't want to pay enough provincial taxes for them.

    Its the Alberta conservative way. Reply With Quote
    jazz's Avatar Oct 19, 2021 | 07:45 17
    Quote Originally Posted by foragefarmer View Post
    Why's that Jazz?

    Because he immigrated from India at 18 with nothing and worked his ass off as a bus driver in Edmonton and got ahead.

    Pubic office awaits you.
    Thats some good qualifications for mayor of a major city now isnt it?

    How about running a failed federal portfolio in Trudeaus cabinet by which he financially fcked his home province?

    He is an incompetent idiot who shouldnt be anywhere near the lever of power even on the municipal level. What a farce our election are now, from PM right down to Mayors. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • jazz's Avatar Oct 19, 2021 | 07:48 18
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Its the Alberta conservative way.
    Looks like somebody is triggered that the will of the people is being heard for once. I commend Kenny for going to referendum.

    Now Canadas constitutional crisis starts all over again all thanks to Quebec and our idiot in chief Trudeau sucking off billions to buy votes. Reply With Quote
    Oct 19, 2021 | 07:53 19 How the **** stupid is Edmonton my God Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 19, 2021 | 08:09 20
    Quote Originally Posted by Robertbarlage View Post
    How the **** stupid is Edmonton my God
    Actually I expected a Sohi win in Edmonton and a Gondek win in Calgary. There is a wide cultural divide between urban and rural Canada. Those in the city are much more welcoming to government interference and certainly less sceptical. As farmers who depend on high population urban centres to buy our product we must be cognizant of this whether we like it or not. As farmers perhaps we need to adopt the Liberal tact of virtue signalling, say all the right things and do nothing!!! Reply With Quote

  • Oct 19, 2021 | 08:31 21
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Thats some good qualifications for mayor of a major city now isnt it?

    How about running a failed federal portfolio in Trudeaus cabinet by which he financially fcked his home province?

    He is an incompetent idiot who shouldnt be anywhere near the lever of power even on the municipal level. What a farce our election are now, from PM right down to Mayors.
    Since you want to look at past qualifications of political leaderships, P.M. Harpo's job experience was a mailroom clerk at Shell which daddy had to get him.

    And of COURSE Ritz Cracker did soooooo much for Western Canadian Farmer. Do you raise F ken ostriches?

    And I guess Moe's Impaired driving record definitely shows someone who has good judgement!

    Jazz do bother trying to take me down that gopher hole. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 19, 2021 | 08:46 22
    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
    Lefty radicals like chuck would rather collect equalization than work !
    Maybe there should be a referendum that RMs or counties not have to share their potash or oil revenue.and that money stays within that area and not shared with the rest of the have not province. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 19, 2021 | 09:03 23 I am not sure why anyone is surprised at the Alberta election results. The results mirrors the decline of right wing/populous governments world wide. IMHO the vote was as much anti-Kenney as it was support of left wing ideals.

    Covid really exposed the weakness of populous governments. Trump/Kenney/Ford/Moe/Bolsaro in Brazil etc.
    The response by rightwing politicians against the pandemic resulted in the highest cases and highest deaths causing voters to move left or stay away from the polls altogether.

    We have seen the defeat of right wing governments in US, Norway, Germany, and polls are showing similar decline of support in Brazil, Hungary, Poland, Slovenia. Here, even the O'toole Conservatives could not defeat the very weak Trudeau leadership with his slight move to the left. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • jazz's Avatar Oct 19, 2021 | 09:09 24
    Quote Originally Posted by foragefarmer View Post
    Jazz do bother trying to take me down that gopher hole.
    Sohi is single handedly responsible for Canada missing out on tens of billions in resource revenue. Guess he cant hurt Canada anymore, just the idiots in redmonton. Watch that city circle the drain now.

    An incompetent fool can do untold damage when put in underserving position of power. Mostly describes Trudeau as well. A generation of woke fools running major economies into the ground at every level. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 19, 2021 | 09:19 25
    Quote Originally Posted by foragefarmer View Post
    Since you want to look at past qualifications of political leaderships, P.M. Harpo's job experience was a mailroom clerk at Shell which daddy had to get him.

    And of COURSE Ritz Cracker did soooooo much for Western Canadian Farmer. Do you raise F ken ostriches?

    And I guess Moe's Impaired driving record definitely shows someone who has good judgement!

    Jazz do bother trying to take me down that gopher hole.
    You bring up very good points. So the better question I keep asking myself, is why does politics attract such low life unqualified individuals to start with? Or is it only those types who rise to the top?

    Is it our fault as voters for holding our noses and voting for the least worst option, instead of demanding better, or the party members for promoting such mediocrity and incompetence, or is it the way we publicly humiliate politicians, our unreasonable expectations of what they should tolerate, and give up and sacrifice, the compensation vs the private sector etc. that disuades most competent people from getting involved.

    I ask myself if I would want my kids to constantly see cartoon caricatures lampooning myself if I were in politics, reading vile social media attacks about me, having political opponents fabricating stories about my past. All that for compensation that is meagre by private sector standards, and requires giving up my current business enterprises. Reply With Quote
    Oct 19, 2021 | 09:27 26
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Sohi is single handedly responsible for Canada missing out on tens of billions in resource revenue. Guess he cant hurt Canada anymore, just the idiots in redmonton. Watch that city circle the drain now.

    An incompetent fool can do untold damage when put in underserving position of power. Mostly describes Trudeau as well. A generation of woke fools running major economies into the ground at every level.
    So why didn't Harpo and Kenny get the job done when oil was $140/barrel rather then sitting with their fingers up each others ass. Two Calgary boys at the helm accomplishing F ALL.

    Just to busy trying to maintain the steady cheques they were getting while at the trough.

    Not to mention all the Canadian oil companies Closet Boy let be bought out by the Commies from China.

    Great track record eh Jazz! Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Oct 19, 2021 | 10:17 27
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    You bring up very good points. So the better question I keep asking myself, is why does politics attract such low life unqualified individuals to start with? Or is it only those types who rise to the top?

    Is it our fault as voters for holding our noses and voting for the least worst option, instead of demanding better, or the party members for promoting such mediocrity and incompetence, or is it the way we publicly humiliate politicians, our unreasonable expectations of what they should tolerate, and give up and sacrifice, the compensation vs the private sector etc. that disuades most competent people from getting involved.

    I ask myself if I would want my kids to constantly see cartoon caricatures lampooning myself if I were in politics, reading vile social media attacks about me, having political opponents fabricating stories about my past. All that for compensation that is meagre by private sector standards, and requires giving up my current business enterprises.
    And how many times did you vote for Paul Martin AB5? At least Martin knew how to run a business, which Canada is.

    I'll bet the farm, NON!

    So now is where us Canadians are at, and your posting a synopsis which has been apparent for 14 years. Reply With Quote
    jazz's Avatar Oct 19, 2021 | 10:18 28 If this is qualified I shudder to think what unqualified would look like. Moe Kenny or Ritz never did a prison term that I am aware of. LOL

    Name:  sohi.jpg
Views: 699
Size:  63.7 KB Reply With Quote
    Oct 19, 2021 | 11:09 29
    Quote Originally Posted by foragefarmer View Post
    And how many times did you vote for Paul Martin AB5? At least Martin knew how to run a business, which Canada is.

    I'll bet the farm, NON!

    So now is where us Canadians are at, and your posting a synopsis which has been apparent for 14 years.
    You would be correct, I have not voted for Paul Martin. I was too young to vote for him throughout his early career and as an Alberta in a strong conservative riding , my vote is irrelevant so I rarely vote federally. And I did not live in his riding.
    But if you care to check back through my posts on Agriville, you will find I am a big fan of Paul Martin, considering him to be the only fiscal conservative we have had at the federal level. I consider myself to not be partisan, I do not blindly support anyone along party lines.

    People with actual business experience such as Paul Martin are exactly who we should be attracting into politics to run what is the essentially biggest business in the country.
    But I'm afraid any actual businessman/woman wouldn't stand a chance in this current environment, regardless of party affiliation. Reply With Quote

  • Oct 19, 2021 | 11:12 30 This video has some insights into politics and capitalism’s progression towards cartelism.

    https://banned.video/watch?id=616dde260cf38701b3385825

    https://banned.video/watch?id=616dde260cf38701b3385825 Reply With Quote