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Apr 8, 2021 | 07:20 1 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...dorf-1.5978305

Your money or your life? Scott Moe's tragic miscalculation

Steven Lewis, Nazeem Muhajarine and Cory Neudorf · For CBC Opinion · Posted: Apr 07, 2021 5:00 PM CT | Last Updated: April 7

This Opinion piece was written by Steven Lewis, a health policy consultant formerly based in Saskatchewan, Nazeem Muhajarine, an epidemiologist and professor at the University of Saskatchewan, and Cory Neudorf, a public health and epidemiology professor at the University of Saskatchewan.

Scott Moe won't budge. There will be no change in his pandemic control strategy, grounded in his belief about how the pandemic affects the economy.

To Moe it is a trade-off: the more you lock down, the greater the economic damage, which causes so much harm that it outweighs the benefit of keeping the virus at bay.

He categorically rejects the measures that kept infection rates, hospitalizations, and deaths low in Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand and elsewhere.

Moe's go-to methods are pleading for voluntary behaviour change, implementing as few restrictions as possible as late as possible, and stalling for time until vaccines produce herd immunity. As he said on March 30, "the way through this is vaccines, the way through this is not more public health measures."

If the premier is right that major economic damage is the unacceptable price of a convincing victory over the virus, it becomes a pick-your-poison scenario: your money or your life.

This was an important theoretical debate at the beginning of the pandemic. After more than a year, the evidence to settle it is starting to emerge. It does not support Premier Moe's assumptions.
Looking at the data

An analysis published in Nature at the end of January looked at the relationship between restrictions on mobility in workplaces, the retail sector and recreational facilities (a measure of economic slowdown), and the COVID death rate in 33 highly developed jurisdictions, including Canada and 10 American states.

There's a lot of sophisticated math and method in the analysis, but here are the highlights:

Places that delayed imposing restrictions saw case numbers climb, resulting in more deaths.
Eventually, the alarming numbers forced these places to impose longer and more stringent lockdowns to get the pandemic under control. Over time they disrupted more economic activity than the countries that acted faster and more comprehensively at the beginning.
The longer duration — and stops and starts — caused greater economic loss in the end.

In short, many countries — including most of Canada — created a lose-lose situation where both people and the economy suffered needlessly.


more.....
Last edited by chuckChuck; Apr 8, 2021 at 07:25.
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SASKFARMER's Avatar Apr 8, 2021 | 07:21 2 BS Chuck Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 07:23 3 That's the best you can do there SF? I haven't seen too many debates won with two word answers! LOL

    As Australia proved, taking effective measures and getting the pandemic under control early is better for the economy. As the article states, half measures actually prolong and deepen the damage.
    Last edited by chuckChuck; Apr 8, 2021 at 07:28.
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    Apr 8, 2021 | 07:29 4 BS Chuck Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 07:33 5 BS UpChuck

    A death a day.

    At this rate SK will become extinct in about 3000 years. Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 07:35 6
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    That's the best you can do there SF? I haven't seen too many debates won with two word answers! LOL
    Here are my thoughts, the Federal government was responsible for controlling air traffic into Canada and therefore reducing the influx of covid variants, here they failed, early in the pandemic there was no restriction on incoming air traffic from other countries. The Federal government was also responsible for the purchase of covid vaccines, here they failed again. Our low vaccination rates have allowed a strong third wave fueled by variants, pushing our infection rates per 1 million people close at present to the U.S. and projected to soon surpass the U.S. Reply With Quote

  • AllisWD45's Avatar Apr 8, 2021 | 07:46 7 BS Chuck So full of shit Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 07:47 8 Provinces are responsible for health measures and lockdowns. Once the virus entered Canada, whether from air, land or returning Florida vacationers or cruisers, then the responsibility is shared provincially and federally. Have their been any countries where the virus did not enter? I don't think so.

    The whole point of the article is that if we as a country slowed the virus like Australia did, then the economy would be more open and many many lives would have been saved. Now we have a lose lose situation.

    Read it again: Places that delayed imposing restrictions saw case numbers climb, resulting in more deaths.
    Eventually, the alarming numbers forced these places to impose longer and more stringent lockdowns to get the pandemic under control. Over time they disrupted more economic activity than the countries that acted faster and more comprehensively at the beginning. The longer duration — and stops and starts — caused greater economic loss in the end.
    Reply With Quote
    Apr 8, 2021 | 08:31 9 I am not getting into a debate but I am giving you some food for thought Chuck. These places that you mention especially Australia are islands that are cut off from the rest of the world. Their goods come in by ships and they do not allow people to come off the ships. They also don’t have illegal immigrants sneaking across their borders and stupid leaders that are flying them in.
    If you want to compare apples to apples look at places like California and Florida.
    Here in Manitoba the people I talk to don’t know anybody that had COVID-19 let alone die from it. But we seem to all know someone that died because suicides are up and people are getting more heart attacks because they were not getting checkups or more stressed. Also cancer not caught in time. And more suffering from delayed surgeries.
    I read a while back right from the CDC website that 92% of the deaths from COVID-19 was not from Covid alone. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 09:21 10 This is interesting. Canadian exceptionalism takes a hit.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-to-population

    "In another blow to Canada’s psyche, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States, in an April 2 update, says Canada’s COVID-19 rate is “very high” — the highest level ranked — and urges Americans against travel to Canada, specifically citing the number of variant cases in the country."

    Before anyone jumps to the knee-jerk conclusion that the solution to this must always be tougher lockdowns, the correlation between severity of lockdown and declining Covid cases is falling apart before our eyes. It's time to reassess the models, folks. They just don't fit reality. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 09:35 11 The federal govt of Canada welcomed covid with open arms. They knew about it way before it was even on the radar in China. They brought plane loads of covid in and spread it it all over the country. Why is the govt worried about covid now when they weren’t 1 1/2 years ago Reply With Quote

  • ajl
    Apr 8, 2021 | 09:48 12
    Quote Originally Posted by TASFarms View Post
    The federal govt of Canada welcomed covid with open arms. They knew about it way before it was even on the radar in China. They brought plane loads of covid in and spread it it all over the country. Why is the govt worried about covid now when they weren’t 1 1/2 years ago
    It was all part of the plan. The reason tam flipped flopped on mask at the beginning was they did not know if they were going to have significant effect on slowing the spread initially. The plan at that time was to get ccp flu to spread. Now that everybody knows that masks have little effect in preventing the spread, and their primary purpose is to dehumanize, they are now mandatory. Yes these people are that evil. Reply With Quote
  • 3 Likes


  • jazz's Avatar Apr 8, 2021 | 10:03 13
    Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
    It was all part of the plan. The reason tam flipped flopped on mask at the beginning was they did not know if they were going to have significant effect on slowing the spread initially. The plan at that time was to get ccp flu to spread. Now that everybody knows that masks have little effect in preventing the spread, and their primary purpose is to dehumanize, they are now mandatory. Yes these people are that evil.
    There are lots of reports of people flying back in here and declaring themselves essential workers and heading home or wherever after they land while snowbirds and vacationers were imprisoned in hotels at their own expense.

    Roxham road never stopped for a second letting untested people come through. Flights that departed for canada might have had one infected person when they took off, had dozens infected by the time they landed, all just flocking right into the country unchecked.

    Travel restrictions were the lowest hanging fruit of all. That would have affected exactly 2 companies which could have been supported. Instead the infection of govt incompetence spread widely all over until we were all affected. Reply With Quote

  • ajl
    Apr 8, 2021 | 10:13 14
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    There are lots of reports of people flying back in here and declaring themselves essential workers and heading home or wherever after they land while snowbirds and vacationers were imprisoned in hotels at their own expense.

    Roxham road never stopped for a second letting untested people come through. Flights that departed for canada might have had one infected person when they took off, had dozens infected by the time they landed, all just flocking right into the country unchecked.

    Travel restrictions were the lowest hanging fruit of all. That would have affected exactly 2 companies which could have been supported. Instead the infection of govt incompetence spread widely all over until we were all affected.
    ccp flu is heavy in the diversity communities which don't follow our laws anyways. There is a reason why a fence appears around a church and not a mosque. Shutting down my minimal social life is not going to do squat to slow it. That is the primary reason that governments efforts so far has resulted in nothing. In the light of this reality, we should have continued to reopen rather than go backwards here in AB. Red states in the US have that figured out. Things will not ever go back to the way things were anyways with the removal of restrictions. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 10:25 15 It was simple.

    Do what Taiwan did right from the start.

    immediately shut down the borders, including airplanes. set up large covid only hospitals in auditoriums or arena's. bring in retired doctors and nurses to help with any surge. if you're mildly ill they made you stay home. if you went to a hospital you were put into surge facilities and kept away from other patients.

    Taiwan never closed schools or shut down the economy.

    last i checked, they had ten deaths and only 1000 total cases since the start. in a country of 25 million. this isn't hindsight. many were advocating for the taiwan approach as soon as taiwan notified the WHO back in december 2019. WHO covered for china, and trudeau wouldn't go against WHO. remember, he's the one who said shutting down flights from china was a racist thing to do. even though many chinese canadians were asking for it because they knew what was coming. Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • jazz's Avatar Apr 8, 2021 | 10:49 16
    Quote Originally Posted by canolacrazy View Post
    It was simple.

    Do what Taiwan did right from the start.
    Thats still an island that is hostile and doesnt trade with its nearest neighbor. Has very little bearing on a place like canada getting international stop over flights and totally intertwined with the largest economy on the planet. Certainly those measures would help but i doubt we would replicate their success.

    The home test kits would have been a big help. mail them to everyone, tell anyone who tests positive to stay put and then test again in 2 weeks. Even the huge error rate in the testing would have been helpful because it would have kept more people home who might have had a false positive. Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 11:11 17 International airports welcomed flight after flight of ‘guests’ from affected locations- TY Feds, now lock us up and blame us, hell of an idea! Reply With Quote
    edl
    Apr 8, 2021 | 11:27 18 BS Chuck Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 12:45 19
    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Economics View Post
    This is interesting. Canadian exceptionalism takes a hit.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-to-population

    "In another blow to Canada’s psyche, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States, in an April 2 update, says Canada’s COVID-19 rate is “very high” — the highest level ranked — and urges Americans against travel to Canada, specifically citing the number of variant cases in the country."

    Before anyone jumps to the knee-jerk conclusion that the solution to this must always be tougher lockdowns, the correlation between severity of lockdown and declining Covid cases is falling apart before our eyes. It's time to reassess the models, folks. They just don't fit reality.
    All of a sudden , models aren't important Reply With Quote
    Apr 8, 2021 | 12:47 20 chuck , you really need to get a different news feed
    you are making a fool of yourself , again....
    did you actually believe that horseshit you spewed? Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 12:49 21
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...dorf-1.5978305

    Your money or your life? Scott Moe's tragic miscalculation

    Steven Lewis, Nazeem Muhajarine and Cory Neudorf · For CBC Opinion · Posted: Apr 07, 2021 5:00 PM CT | Last Updated: April 7

    This Opinion piece was written by Steven Lewis, a health policy consultant formerly based in Saskatchewan, Nazeem Muhajarine, an epidemiologist and professor at the University of Saskatchewan, and Cory Neudorf, a public health and epidemiology professor at the University of Saskatchewan.

    Scott Moe won't budge. There will be no change in his pandemic control strategy, grounded in his belief about how the pandemic affects the economy.

    To Moe it is a trade-off: the more you lock down, the greater the economic damage, which causes so much harm that it outweighs the benefit of keeping the virus at bay.

    He categorically rejects the measures that kept infection rates, hospitalizations, and deaths low in Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand and elsewhere.

    Moe's go-to methods are pleading for voluntary behaviour change, implementing as few restrictions as possible as late as possible, and stalling for time until vaccines produce herd immunity. As he said on March 30, "the way through this is vaccines, the way through this is not more public health measures."

    If the premier is right that major economic damage is the unacceptable price of a convincing victory over the virus, it becomes a pick-your-poison scenario: your money or your life.

    This was an important theoretical debate at the beginning of the pandemic. After more than a year, the evidence to settle it is starting to emerge. It does not support Premier Moe's assumptions.
    Looking at the data

    An analysis published in Nature at the end of January looked at the relationship between restrictions on mobility in workplaces, the retail sector and recreational facilities (a measure of economic slowdown), and the COVID death rate in 33 highly developed jurisdictions, including Canada and 10 American states.

    There's a lot of sophisticated math and method in the analysis, but here are the highlights:

    Places that delayed imposing restrictions saw case numbers climb, resulting in more deaths.
    Eventually, the alarming numbers forced these places to impose longer and more stringent lockdowns to get the pandemic under control. Over time they disrupted more economic activity than the countries that acted faster and more comprehensively at the beginning.
    The longer duration — and stops and starts — caused greater economic loss in the end.

    In short, many countries — including most of Canada — created a lose-lose situation where both people and the economy suffered needlessly.


    more.....
    umm., lockdowns , texas ???
    why doesn't it mention trudeaus **** up getting vaccines fro china ? Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 13:16 22 upChuck is a paid troll, here's proof.

    From yesterday's Globe and Mail, https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-administered/

    regarding the roll out of vaccines supplied to the provinces;

    " Among the provinces, Newfoundland and Labrador has the slowest rollout of vaccinations, and as of Tuesday had administered only 54 per cent of available shots, with Manitoba and Nova Scotia tying for second last at 58 per cent, according to tracking by The Globe and Mail. Ontario had administered 63 per cent of its available doses, while Quebec administered 67 per cent. Saskatchewan leads the way at 78 per cent. "

    Saskatchewan ranks No.1 in getting vaccine it receives, into the arms of Saskatchewan people. Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 16:44 23 BS chuckchuck Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • fjlip's Avatar Apr 8, 2021 | 17:36 24 Double double BS and paid shit disturber CC. Vax yourself Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Apr 8, 2021 | 18:49 25 Chuck did you read beaverdams post ????!???? Reply With Quote
    Apr 8, 2021 | 22:19 26 Saskatchewan has consistently been the best place to live through this China Flu BS if your goal was to live. We have the highest survival rate in Canada and the lowest impediments to living our lives. I'm not putting that all on Scott - we're blessed with a lot of wide open space which has surely helped. But Scott & Dr. Shahab have had the courage to ignore the media experts. I'm always a proud Saskatchewanian but never more so than the last year. Scott also does a pretty good job of regularly calling Skippy out for his (numerous) failures on this file and others.

    Something that I find hilarious is that the so-called "leader" of the Dippers is apparently a Doctor. But he might as well be a garbage collector for all the credibility he has had with anyone - the public, the medical community, the media. I hope the Dippers make him Dear Leader for Life. Reply With Quote

  • Apr 8, 2021 | 22:47 27 Everyone knows the virus panic has been hyped. Dragged out. It’s not even technically a pandemic anymore, it’s now scientifically deemed an epidemic.

    Q: So why the push to keep it and centre?

    A. Vaccine passports.

    That’s what communists have been after since DayOne. Vaccine passports.

    All your personal data will be owned by communists. And they will use it for coercion. For distributing wealth to those who will spread more communism. For DNA identity. For location. For spying. Blackmail.

    And China will be front and center.

    Put your foot down, folks. Reply With Quote

  • Apr 9, 2021 | 07:08 28 Phoned a neighbour last night, hadn’t talked to him for a few months, turned out he was in Arizona. Him and his wife were apparently spending a month there. I found it interesting that he was able to set up his appointments to be vaccinated before he left Canada. He will receive both Pfizer shots 3 weeks apart while he is there. He also said because the Americans are getting more people vaccinated the daily case counts in Arizona are around 5-600 hundred, Phoenix alone has as many people as Alberta. So he was quite happy to be there. It certainly illustrates how truly incompetent our Canadian government is and yet many people are willing to vote Justin Trudeau back in, hard to fathom from my perspective!! Reply With Quote
    Apr 9, 2021 | 07:37 29 Governments who had more control over domestic vaccine production have a big advantage. Canada gave up that capacity long ago. But it will be brought back quickly.

    In the middle of the largest vaccination campaign in history, you don't think the competition for vaccines might make it hard to get enough vaccines?

    Based on the comments some posters would have supported no measures to reduce transmission. That would have been fun.

    Our friends in Australia did the exact opposite and knocked the pandemic down and reopened a lot of their economy already. But posters don't want to believe we could have done a better job like Australia. Reply With Quote
    Apr 9, 2021 | 07:43 30 Yea by stopping international incoming traffic while numb nuts was kissing chinas ass Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like