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So the Left Closed Parler and Gab is down, Twitter is blocking, Yep free country.

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Jan 12, 2021 | 12:16 61 I saw this on Facebook tonight: High Tech can shut down Trump on social media but can’t shut down child pornography.??
Here’s a serious question for you ? Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2021 | 12:21 62 Elon Musk is not impressed and is musing about an alternative platform, that will significantly impact FB and Twit if he chooses to compete. Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2021 | 13:20 63 Facebook busy rigging some more elections; Why not add more corruption to Africa.

Facebook takes down Ugandan pro-Museveni accounts ahead of election Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2021 | 10:28 64 In part II of Zeihan's article posted a few days ago, specifically about big tech in the post Trump era, he states the following:
And yet social media is absolutely part of – perhaps even the root of – the problem. Facebook's own internal research indicates that 64% of the time a user joins an extremist Facebook group, it is because Facebook recommended the group to the user. This is the same Facebook that sc****s every bit of personal data it can get from your computer and phone and then sells that data to scammers, complete with a data analysis of what sorts of scams Facebook thinks you are most likely to fall for. An eager purchaser of said data and analytics is the Russian bot farm. I trust the implications of that are fairly obvious.
It seems that things are never as simple or cut and dried as we would like them to be.

https://mailchi.mp/zeihan/life-after-trump-part-ii Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2021 | 12:44 65 Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald
·
Jan 11
In addition to the German Chancellor & Mexican President, 2 French ministers said they were "shocked" & disturbed by the spate of Silicon Valley censorship, including against Trump, calling tech giants "the digital oligarchy" & a "threat to democracy."

https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/ Reply With Quote

  • Jan 13, 2021 | 15:03 66 This movement should work wonders for uniting the various sides. As people on one side of the political divide abandon the mediums of information sharing(facebook, twitter etc) that they formerly shared with the other side, and move to their own social media platforms, or other, more clandestine methods of sharing info, they won't even be exposed to each others view points anymore.

    This censorship of one side is only going to make it worse. Imagine if Chuck and friends all decide to take their ball and go play somewhere else. We would be left in ignorant bliss not being confronted daily by their points of view, and likewise, they would be in the their own bubble, never having their opinions challenged. No common ground, just continue to separate further and further apart, leading to even more civil unrest when the two ( or more) sides find their differences to be irreconcilable. How long would it take to revert back to the tribal/clan type behaviour of our ancestors (or some parts of the world still to this day)? No contact with the tribe, except the occasional war or raid, no cooperation, never learning anything from the collective wisdom.

    Not to mention that it will make it even more difficult for authorities to uncover the bad apples before they do something.

    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer comes to mind.
    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jan 13, 2021 at 15:39.
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  • Jan 13, 2021 | 18:18 67 And sheeple don’t understand that Reply With Quote
    Jan 13, 2021 | 20:25 68
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    This movement should work wonders for uniting the various sides. As people on one side of the political divide abandon the mediums of information sharing(facebook, twitter etc) that they formerly shared with the other side, and move to their own social media platforms, or other, more clandestine methods of sharing info, they won't even be exposed to each others view points anymore.

    This censorship of one side is only going to make it worse. Imagine if Chuck and friends all decide to take their ball and go play somewhere else. We would be left in ignorant bliss not being confronted daily by their points of view, and likewise, they would be in the their own bubble, never having their opinions challenged. No common ground, just continue to separate further and further apart, leading to even more civil unrest when the two ( or more) sides find their differences to be irreconcilable. How long would it take to revert back to the tribal/clan type behaviour of our ancestors (or some parts of the world still to this day)? No contact with the tribe, except the occasional war or raid, no cooperation, never learning anything from the collective wisdom.

    Not to mention that it will make it even more difficult for authorities to uncover the bad apples before they do something.

    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer comes to mind.
    Mediums of information??? or disinformation. How many right wing sites claim the capital riots were false flag operations? How many on here believe that? Yet in Congress today the House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy stated: ""Some say the riots were caused by antifa. There is absolutely no evidence of that. And conservatives should be the first to say so."
    How many believe the election was rigged and have said so on social media. Yet recounts were done in the contested states and it did not change the results. Trump had more than 60 suits claiming election fraud thrown out because the right wing could not present any actual evidence of the fraud. Republican Kevin McCarthy, who voted to overturn the results of the election, now says, "Joe Biden will be sworn in as president in one week because he won the election."
    Just because something appears in social media (left or right leaning) does not make it true. Most people are too lazy to confirm or even question postings, provided the postings fits their bias. The censorship is not the fault of media companies but of individuals, up to and including the president, posting lies and conspiracy theories, instead of actual information.
    Parler was in fact a right wing attempt (abefore censorship) to "go play somewhere else."
    Last edited by dmlfarmer; Jan 13, 2021 at 21:18.
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    Jan 13, 2021 | 21:13 69 I agree with dml in part.

    The far left and far right honestly there are as bad a each other.

    Both have blinded followers the rest of us are in the middle trying to figure it out/sort it out or just going about our daily lives ignoring it.

    Lead story on left wing news or right wing news darn near every night for last 4 years has been DT.

    Gets tiresome. Reply With Quote

  • Jan 13, 2021 | 22:54 70 I urge everyone to watch the HBO documentary After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News Reply With Quote
    Jan 13, 2021 | 23:00 71 What gets really tiresome is these looney left turds who have nothing better to do than to ride our arses. Get lost DML. Reply With Quote
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  • Jan 13, 2021 | 23:27 72 Some say right and left. I say right and wrong... Reply With Quote
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  • Jan 13, 2021 | 23:36 73
    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    What gets really tiresome is these looney left turds who have nothing better to do than to ride our arses. Get lost DML.
    Oops not a like
    Frozen fingers
    Fireplace roaring, time to dream Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 01:11 74
    Quote Originally Posted by dmlfarmer View Post
    Mediums of information??? or disinformation. How many right wing sites claim the capital riots were false flag operations? How many on here believe that? Yet in Congress today the House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy stated: ""Some say the riots were caused by antifa. There is absolutely no evidence of that. And conservatives should be the first to say so."
    How many believe the election was rigged and have said so on social media. Yet recounts were done in the contested states and it did not change the results. Trump had more than 60 suits claiming election fraud thrown out because the right wing could not present any actual evidence of the fraud. Republican Kevin McCarthy, who voted to overturn the results of the election, now says, "Joe Biden will be sworn in as president in one week because he won the election."
    Just because something appears in social media (left or right leaning) does not make it true. Most people are too lazy to confirm or even question postings, provided the postings fits their bias. The censorship is not the fault of media companies but of individuals, up to and including the president, posting lies and conspiracy theories, instead of actual information.
    Parler was in fact a right wing attempt (abefore censorship) to "go play somewhere else."
    Either you didn't read my post, or else I'm an even worse communicator than my wife tells me I am.
    I didn't say anything about the riots or fake news, or consipiracies or the election, or parler ( hadn't even heard of it before a few days ago).

    I am saying that we have a very divided society, and that is at the root of many of the issues going on right now. Kicking one faction out of the conversation is only going to make that division worse.

    You have lately claimed that you spend time on Agriville specifically to call out BS. And many ( most I hope) of us are open minded enough to begrudgingly accept your corrections when we are off course. And vice versa ( with the notable exception of Chuck who already knows everything, and a few on the other extreme...)

    If I come on here and start spouting off about some conspiracy theory that I just made up, and Agriville kicks me off for spreading fake news. You lose the opportunity to debate me and prove me wrong, in the public arena for all other readers to also see, so the next time they encounter my theory in the gossip chain, they won't know any better, and will believe it. I will take my conspiracy theory elsewhere, and keep spreading it, unfettered. My vast fan club will probably follow me ( Right Bin Lurking?) Now completely paranoid that big brother is out to get us, we will have to meet in person in our Mom's basement with our tinfoil hats where no one can censor or listen in. With no grown ups to set us straight, our conspiracy theories and paranoia will only grow stronger, meanwhile you and Chuck will be the only ones left on Agriville congratulating each other on the consensus you have achieved on... everything. Your group will assume you are right about everything, our group will assume we are right about everything, since neither one ever encounters any dissenting opinions.

    Aren't we all better off knowing what the other side is up to?

    Looked at another way. The folks who walked into the Capitol were apparently smart enough to supposedly have been planning this all online in plain sight all along. That makes it much easier to prevent and or solve a crime than if you silence them all, and they all go underground communicating by smoke signals.

    So if you keep them a part of the conversation, not only do you get the opportunity to try to straighten them out, but you also can see what they are plotting, and do something about it.

    The much bigger issue ( and I've posted about this before), is who gets to decide what is fake news?
    Do you have an answer as to who you would trust to always know what is true and what isn't? And is the truth fixed in time? A sun centric solar system was fake news at one time, should it still be? Could science and society even progress if contrary evidence is disallowed in public, after all, that is how science progresses.
    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jan 14, 2021 at 09:06.
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  • Jan 14, 2021 | 05:43 75 Glen Greenwald presents a cogent piece on how the big tech operators - BTOs, if you like - can cooperate to shut down anyone they want to silence.

    Anyone.

    "How Silicon Valley, in a Show of Monopolistic Force, Destroyed Parler

    In the last three months, tech giants have censored political speech and journalism to manipulate U.S. politics, while liberals, with virtual unanimity, have cheered."

    Free speech is done.

    What never ceases to amaze, though, is that the leftist shrillers who cheer this action on cannot see how it will invariably come back to bite them.

    History repeats because of such ignorance.

    They display a special kind of obtuse stupidity that is truly disturbing. A stupidity that blinds them to the corrosive evil espoused and promoted by the real threat to peace. The type of threat spewed by mis-characterizations of humanity like the twisted AOC. Or the hate-breathing Rashid. And so on...

    These are the ones who have set a determined course to destroy everything that we value.

    https://greenwald.substack.com/p/how...f-monopolistic Reply With Quote
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  • Jan 14, 2021 | 09:17 76 Meanwhile in Canada:

    Cabinet will introduce 2021 regulations to curb Twitter and Facebook posts deemed hurtful or offensive, says Heritage Minister Steven Guilbeault’s department. Hate speech is already forbidden under 1970 amendments to the Criminal Code. (Blacklocks Jan 14,2021) Reply With Quote
    SASKFARMER's Avatar Jan 14, 2021 | 09:23 77 Yea in Canada anything from the right will be stopped at all costs. The left propaganda can continue.

    Ah, what a shit show. Reply With Quote

  • Jan 14, 2021 | 14:00 78
    Quote Originally Posted by SASKFARMER View Post
    Yea in Canada anything from the right will be stopped at all costs. The left propaganda can continue.

    Ah, what a shit show.
    I see teacher put another thread in the penalty box. Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 16:03 79
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    ....The much bigger issue ( and I've posted about this before), is who gets to decide what is fake news?
    Do you have an answer as to who you would trust to always know what is true and what isn't? And is the truth fixed in time? A sun centric solar system was fake news at one time, should it still be? Could science and society even progress if contrary evidence is disallowed in public, after all, that is how science progresses.
    AF5: Collection of evidence that the earth revolved around the sun through observation and mathematics is what led to acceptance of a sun centric system by the populous. Evidence knowledge is what determines what is fake news and what is truth.

    Where was the evidence for the basis of Pizzagate? There was no actual evidence, it was simply innuendo, suspicions, and propaganda that led to claims of a Democratic child sex ring operating out of Comet Pizza. And repeated sharing of this garbage ultimately led to an armed gunman shooting up Comet Pizza. The Pizzagate story was widely circulated yet no one stopped the gunman just as no one prevented the capital riots or BLM riots so I dispute your theory that exposure prevents bad things happening. Instead I will argue increased violence is what unfettered sharing of fake news results in.

    I am not for banning free speech. I am for taking away the public megaphone that is used to spread lies, rumors and propaganda. That is all that shutting down Parler is doing. You say that the speech will just go "to moms basement" and you are right. However, the number of people that hear those words in "moms basement" will be miniscule compared to the audience they have through social media. If there was moderation of social media to insure posts are honest, there would be no need to shut a site down. But Parler made a point that it was completely unmoderated and that was its downfall. The point everyone is ignoring is that there must by responsibility by both individuals and social media to ensure what is said and posted is true based on knowledge and evidence. Without that assurance, free speech quickly becomes propaganda for those in power to empower and control the useful idiots in society.

    The question I ask you AF5 is would WW2 have happened if the Nazi party did not use propaganda? They even had a Ministry of Enlightenment and Propaganda. They sold a story that the average German wanted to believe instead of truth. They convinced the German people that the cause of their plight was the Jews. And the people believed that the trains carrying the Jews were going to work camps because that was the story that was always presented. Yet even today there are those who deny the holocaust happened. Should people be able to deny the Holocaust happened without providing any actual evidence for that statement? Should Republicans be allowed to claim the election was fraudulent and Trump won without providing any actual evidence of fraud?

    The propaganda posters of Nazi Germany are no different than the memes on social media today by both the right and left. Social media has become a useful tool of powerful people to recruit people through the use of misinformation, just as the Nazi's used newspapers and radio. The rallies today to fire up supporters to a cause is no different the the rallies Hitler had.

    No question that society is divided today. But I believe repetition of lies and propaganda does more to inflame those divisions than holding those behind fake news and misinformation accountable. Reply With Quote
    SASKFARMER's Avatar Jan 14, 2021 | 16:20 80 Thats real nice but Trudeau is the idiot incharge in canada and he is pushing his agenda down our throats. He is only interested in propping up seats that he can get elected in. Basically taking smart city people and turning them into sheep that follow his every rule.

    MSM is doing the same by propping up this fool.

    Hitler never had more than a minority gov and he controlled the people.

    I don't trust trudeau one bit or any liberal. Reply With Quote

  • Jan 14, 2021 | 17:15 81
    Quote Originally Posted by dmlfarmer View Post
    AF5: Collection of evidence that the earth revolved around the sun through observation and mathematics is what led to acceptance of a sun centric system by the populous. Evidence knowledge is what determines what is fake news and what is truth.

    Where was the evidence for the basis of Pizzagate? There was no actual evidence, it was simply innuendo, suspicions, and propaganda that led to claims of a Democratic child sex ring operating out of Comet Pizza. And repeated sharing of this garbage ultimately led to an armed gunman shooting up Comet Pizza. The Pizzagate story was widely circulated yet no one stopped the gunman just as no one prevented the capital riots or BLM riots so I dispute your theory that exposure prevents bad things happening. Instead I will argue increased violence is what unfettered sharing of fake news results in.
    Preventing and reducing are two different things. The law of diminishing returns applied here too. There are always going to be some crazies who are immune to logic and common sense. While the vast majority might be somewhat gullible and naive, but when presented with logical arguments, will moderate their opinions, and not resort to shooting pizza joints( never heard of pizzagate before), or burning police cars. Not sure that reaching the extremists on both sides is even possible. But I'd rather deal with the aftermath of a small handful of crazies that slip through the cracks, than half the population, which is where this is leading.

    Your arguement regarding the sun centric universe is exactly backwards. The accepted wisdom was that it was earth centric. Everything that contradicted that was the considered the fake news of the day. te censors of the day were the Catholic church, and they decided what was and wasn't fake news. No one was not permitted to present the evidence without dire consequences. Copernicus didn't even publish within his lifetime. Galileo had his book banned, lost his position, ended up having to confess through threat of torture and was sentenced to house arrest for the rest of his life, easily could have cost him his life. It took centuries for all Catholic countries to finally accept the truth.
    Are you certain that the censors at facebook are any more capable of judging truth from fiction than those in Galileo's times? Do you think the truth is fixed in time?

    As for the suggestion that no one stopped the white house walk in, when it was so well advertised; all I can say is that fact really gives the conspiracy theorists a lot of great material. And makes your job of disproving them much harder. This wasn't a clandestine secret coup, it was the most advertised and publicly planned event I can think of. If no one took heed until after the fact, it really forces one to ask a lot of questions.
    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jan 14, 2021 at 17:26.
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  • Jan 14, 2021 | 17:31 82
    Quote Originally Posted by dmlfarmer View Post

    The question I ask you AF5 is would WW2 have happened if the Nazi party did not use propaganda? They even had a Ministry of Enlightenment and Propaganda. They sold a story that the average German wanted to believe instead of truth. They convinced the German people that the cause of their plight was the Jews. And the people believed that the trains carrying the Jews were going to work camps because that was the story that was always presented. Yet even today there are those who deny the holocaust happened. Should people be able to deny the Holocaust happened without providing any actual evidence for that statement? Should Republicans be allowed to claim the election was fraudulent and Trump won without providing any actual evidence of fraud?

    The propaganda posters of Nazi Germany are no different than the memes on social media today by both the right and left. Social media has become a useful tool of powerful people to recruit people through the use of misinformation, just as the Nazi's used newspapers and radio. The rallies today to fire up supporters to a cause is no different the the rallies Hitler had.

    No question that society is divided today. But I believe repetition of lies and propaganda does more to inflame those divisions than holding those behind fake news and misinformation accountable.
    I'm not in the speculation business, but I would surmise that WWII was inevitable. Stalin was determined to start it, Hitler just beat him to it before he was prepared.

    A better question to ask, is could a modern day Hitler convince his population to turn on a single religious group, ignore the obvious signs and probably fool so many of them in the era of social media? Or would the democratization of media, as opposed to the absolute monopoly on propaganda that the Nazi's enjoyed, make such a thing impossible? Reply With Quote
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  • Jan 14, 2021 | 18:22 83
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    I'm not in the speculation business, but I would surmise that WWII was inevitable. Stalin was determined to start it, Hitler just beat him to it before he was prepared.

    A better question to ask, is could a modern day Hitler convince his population to turn on a single religious group, ignore the obvious signs and probably fool so many of them in the era of social media? Or would the democratization of media, as opposed to the absolute monopoly on propaganda that the Nazi's enjoyed, make such a thing impossible?
    I wonder too with such accessible social media today that people presented with instant access to information act or react too quickly? How do we keep people logical and not too hasty? Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 18:39 84 I have various friends on twitter both on left and right side of arguments have had accounts suspended in last week.

    Some seemingly innocuous innocent tweets somet8mes humour bang gone. Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 21:07 85
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    I'm not in the speculation business, but I would surmise that WWII was inevitable. Stalin was determined to start it, Hitler just beat him to it before he was prepared.

    A better question to ask, is could a modern day Hitler convince his population to turn on a single religious group, ignore the obvious signs and probably fool so many of them in the era of social media? Or would the democratization of media, as opposed to the absolute monopoly on propaganda that the Nazi's enjoyed, make such a thing impossible?
    I am not going to label anyone as Hitler. But I will say modern day government propaganda and social media tools are just as effective at using propaganada as it was by the Nazis in the 1930's, and maybe even more so. Example, WMDs in Iraq. The US wanted a war supported by allies and sold a fictitious story that Iraq had Iraq had WMDs ensuring support of its own citizens as well as convincing Britain to join the alliance amongst others.

    It has been used to justify building Trump's wall with his discriptions of "caravans" of "rapists and murders" heading to the southern US border.

    It was tried to stop Muslims from entering the US early in Trumps term but the courts, and not the people, called the Muslim ban for what it was.

    And now we have had 3 months of Trump claiming the election was a fraud, and he actually won the election, supported by right wing media, and that has resulted a majority of Republicans actually believing the election was fraudulent despite no evidence of wide spread fraud uncovered by law enforcement, state governments, election officials or anyone else. And the result of this Trump led propaganda is unfolding before our eyes. Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 21:45 86
    Quote Originally Posted by WiltonRanch View Post
    I wonder too with such accessible social media today that people presented with instant access to information act or react too quickly? How do we keep people logical and not too hasty?
    Very good point .
    Taking a break once in a while and being an observer at both sides helps sort things out . Now more than ever both sides of the pendulum are way too far apart , right or left .
    Sorting out what’s in the middle is harder than ever for some .

    “Facts” are being screwed too far either way lately in many things , especially politics and climate change.
    Generally what’s in between in most likely most relevant to what ever truth is left in any story .

    Watching several interviews with Tulsi Gabbard lately, who left the Democrats recently, she gives a very level headed perspective of current events, in politics anyway . Reply With Quote
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  • Jan 14, 2021 | 21:53 87 Great examples. All of which have failed, the citizens saw through them. And with the exception of the Iraq war, they didn't get very far when the propaganda machine failed, largely due to an informed populace. No wall, no Muslim ban, the winner of the election is being inaugurated, US is almost out of Iraq with nothing gained or colonized. They all failed. A century ago, they likely all would have succeeded when governments had the monopoly on information dissemination.

    And if you really want to revisit the WMD's issue, the reason the US knew that they existed is that they were the ones who provided them the WMD's duringg the Iran Iraq war. That is no conspiracy, it happened, where they went from there is up for debate. Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 22:06 88
    Quote Originally Posted by dmlfarmer View Post
    I am not going to label anyone as Hitler. But I will say modern day government propaganda and social media tools are just as effective at using propaganada as it was by the Nazis in the 1930's, and maybe even more so. Example, WMDs in Iraq. The US wanted a war supported by allies and sold a fictitious story that Iraq had Iraq had WMDs ensuring support of its own citizens as well as convincing Britain to join the alliance amongst others.

    It has been used to justify building Trump's wall with his discriptions of "caravans" of "rapists and murders" heading to the southern US border.

    It was tried to stop Muslims from entering the US early in Trumps term but the courts, and not the people, called the Muslim ban for what it was.

    And now we have had 3 months of Trump claiming the election was a fraud, and he actually won the election, supported by right wing media, and that has resulted a majority of Republicans actually believing the election was fraudulent despite no evidence of wide spread fraud uncovered by law enforcement, state governments, election officials or anyone else. And the result of this Trump led propaganda is unfolding before our eyes.
    Agree , not everything being said as fact is true ...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/amuse/status/1349885882262761473
    Interesting times ...
    who dun it ... both sides guilty ???
    A circus Propaganda extravaganza from both sides lol Reply With Quote
    Jan 14, 2021 | 22:13 89
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    Great examples. All of which have failed, the citizens saw through them. And with the exception of the Iraq war, they didn't get very far when the propaganda machine failed, largely due to an informed populace. No wall, no Muslim ban, the winner of the election is being inaugurated, US is almost out of Iraq with nothing gained or colonized. They all failed. A century ago, they likely all would have succeeded when governments had the monopoly on information dissemination.

    And if you really want to revisit the WMD's issue, the reason the US knew that they existed is that they were the ones who provided them the WMD's duringg the Iran Iraq war. That is no conspiracy, it happened, where they went from there is up for debate.
    Really! LMAO The US went to war in Iraq for 8 years and dragged Britain in all on the basis of the US government claims of Iraq still producing WMDs whereas the UN had destroyed the WMDs they did have in 1991. People were convinced that brown people coming to the border are all bad people and the government spent $15 billion of tax payer money to date to build walls - all of which Mexico was going to pay for. I admit the Muslim ban failed but not because of citizen not supporting it but because the courts threw it out. May I point out The Nazis did not win WW2 either but that does not mean the propaganda they employed to get the citizens to fight WW2 did not work. And we do not yet know the outcome of the propaganda that the election was rigged other than one riot and the largest lockdown in recent American history. We do not know if the inauguration will go without more violence or if Trump supporters will ever support Biden and his win of the presidency. If they don't the propaganda worked. Not everyone has to agree or support propaganda for it to be effective. As you pointed out the Nazis never had a plurality, in fact the most support they ever had was 37% but that was enough to draw the world into war and to ostracize and kill millions of Jews - except tor those who believe the holocaust did not happen.
    Last edited by dmlfarmer; Jan 15, 2021 at 13:22.
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    Jan 15, 2021 | 01:01 90 "Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...media-accounts Reply With Quote