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Oct 25, 2020 | 12:42 1 How many here use it ?
This is just an example from higher producing areas in Western Canada..


We don’t shoot for this , some do in area but only on select fields .
Regardless is kinda a handy app . Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2020 | 12:57 2
Quote Originally Posted by furrowtickler View Post
How many here use it ?
This is just an example from higher producing areas in Western Canada..


We don’t shoot for this , some do in area but only on select fields .
Regardless is kinda a handy app .
Yes, went to their field day, watch their Sunday YouTube videos. They have a few decent apps. Definitely worth checking out Reply With Quote
Oct 25, 2020 | 12:57 3 No sense aiming for what you can't achieve.

Might get lucky every once in a while but using macros on that level here would ensure waste and possible bankruptcy over the long haul.

People might forget there is always some release from nutrient cycling. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 13:29 4 Zero soil moisture. Will put down enough at seeding for about 30 I'm thinking
    Who counts straw nutrient uptake if you don't remove the straw?
    Last edited by farming101; Oct 25, 2020 at 13:31.
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 13:40 5
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    No sense aiming for what you can't achieve.

    Might get lucky every once in a while but using macros on that level here would ensure waste and possible bankruptcy over the long haul.

    People might forget there is always some release from nutrient cycling.
    True , we usually aim for about 80% of our target then try to add during season if conditions allow.
    Shooting too high in any area is a recipe for bankruptcy for any farm . Here that might happen 1 in 10 years . Frost , snow , prolonged dry spells and hail fill that gap 70% of the time and 20% is just “shitte” that happens .. ie weed control issues or crop disease (Root rot , sclerotina, fusarium and others) that sometimes can’t be controlled due to weather or other factors .
    Some areas are blessed with 3or4 out of 10 years for near ideal conditions. But that’s not here in our pocket . Some pockets not far away (10 miles) are more consistent at the high end .
    Agree on the nutrient cycling , it gets ignored by most fertilizer retailers .
    Last edited by furrowtickler; Oct 25, 2020 at 13:42.
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 13:42 6 It works good. Get soil test numbers + organic material break down +fertilizer applied gets close to what app figured out Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 14:04 7 "Hey buddy can you drop 80 acres of straw for me? Be a pal..." Free of course. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 14:07 8
    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
    Yous leaving money on the table

    Fertilize to the max

    You cant loose

    She all goes 50 even with out July Rain !

    Give er !
    Yup , until reality hits lol Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 15:02 9 We don't use that app yet. Currently use their Ag PhD Drainage App for prepping for tile installation. I really enjoy their radio show when I can get it and watch their Youtubes. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 15:07 10
    Quote Originally Posted by farming101 View Post
    Zero soil moisture. Will put down enough at seeding for about 30 I'm thinking
    Who counts straw nutrient uptake if you don't remove the straw?
    Total uptake. Need both grain and straw portion.

    Scary next spring if it doesn't rain lots in April. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 15:12 11
    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
    Yous leaving money on the table

    Fertilize to the max

    You cant loose

    She all goes 50 even with out July Rain !

    Give er !
    Remember what I said about being all in last spring? Not a good feeling when it isn't raining.

    And all those nutrients are stranded 4 inches away from the seedrow in a "midrow" band while roots are growing down not lateral chasing moisture.

    🤔😉😉😉😉😉😉😛😠 Reply With Quote

  • Oct 25, 2020 | 16:50 12 So what is the consensus on nutrient availability from straw chopped in no-till cropping? Different sources indicate different portions are eventually available again, vs. lost to the atmosphere. Reply With Quote
    Oct 25, 2020 | 17:51 13 One good rain can wash all the potash out of the straw. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 25, 2020 | 19:46 14
    Quote Originally Posted by TASFarms View Post
    One good rain can wash all the potash out of the straw.
    And wash get into the soil or wash it away?

    I am more concerned about the nitrogen. Some sources indicate that a large portion of the N gets volatized and lost, Unless it is Incorporated. Reply With Quote
    Ab7
    Oct 25, 2020 | 21:49 15
    Quote Originally Posted by farming101 View Post
    Zero soil moisture. Will put down enough at seeding for about 30 I'm thinking
    Who counts straw nutrient uptake if you don't remove the straw?
    That’s obviously for people who are removing the straw.
    Duh Reply With Quote
    Oct 25, 2020 | 21:54 16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab7 View Post
    That’s obviously for people who are removing the straw.
    Duh
    Okay makes sense now.
    Just that nobody removes canola straw round here Reply With Quote
    Oct 25, 2020 | 22:10 17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab7 View Post
    That’s obviously for people who are removing the straw.
    Duh
    Gotta grow it before you can remove it.

    Gotta have enough nutrients for the grain production and the straw, root and leaf biomass as well.

    Glad we get to leave our residue behind to help build soil and it's structure.

    A good thatch can even help preserve moisture in dry springs.

    Wet years it can turn into a Petri dish of fungal disease, oh well, enter vertical tillage(time and place). Reply With Quote
    helmsdale's Avatar Oct 25, 2020 | 22:14 18 the stover number still matters... You have to grow the straw in the current year. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 26, 2020 | 00:17 19
    Quote Originally Posted by helmsdale View Post
    the stover number still matters... You have to grow the straw in the current year.
    Exactly and if you rely on mineralization too much without investing something back into your portfolio, the interest dwindles to nothing. Some of my challenging soils are solonetzic and most soil test regimes recommended do not pan out if other factors aren’t in your favour. All I know is keep the soil covered, leave residue, add residue (feed cows on it), fertilize for a realistic yield, and don’t grow barley. Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 26, 2020 | 04:12 20
    Quote Originally Posted by TASFarms View Post
    One good rain can wash all the potash out of the straw.
    One good thunderstorm can add 50ib/ac n in crop year.... A good pea crop can add another 100b/ac n the next 3 years... plus soil conditioning / nutrient avaliability/uptake is increased... 60bu/ac pea crop well chopped and spread= huge productivity gains after that pulse crop... fabas not so much... Reply With Quote
    GDR
    Oct 26, 2020 | 07:24 21 We grow lots of straw here regularly, often problematic. It has gotten very trendy to bale it off. I would guess 85% of cereals were baled this year and a bit of canola straw. And there is no shortage of feed here, guys are just trying to get their baling back out of it. Seems counterproductive to me. I bale some every year but try to take it from the fields where I can replace with manure. Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 08:46 22
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    One good thunderstorm can add 50ib/ac n in crop year.... A good pea crop can add another 100b/ac n the next 3 years... plus soil conditioning / nutrient avaliability/uptake is increased... 60bu/ac pea crop well chopped and spread= huge productivity gains after that pulse crop... fabas not so much...
    Why not Fabas ? I have been told the opposite , and the cereal crops I have seen here on Fabas look great . Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 09:35 23
    Quote Originally Posted by helmsdale View Post
    the stover number still matters... You have to grow the straw in the current year.
    True if this is the first year that the straw was returned to the soil. But if you have been putting the straw back every year for years or decades, at some point the mineralization of previous straw must cancel out the need to fertilize for the stover growth in the current year. If not, then where do the nutrients go? Reply With Quote

  • Oct 26, 2020 | 09:47 24
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    True if this is the first year that the straw was returned to the soil. But if you have been putting the straw back every year for years or decades, at some point the mineralization of previous straw must cancel out the need to fertilize for the stover growth in the current year. If not, then where do the nutrients go?
    Volatilization of the unstable variety and leaching of stable ones? Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 10:01 25
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    One good thunderstorm can add 50ib/ac n in crop year.... A good pea crop can add another 100b/ac n the next 3 years... plus soil conditioning / nutrient avaliability/uptake is increased... 60bu/ac pea crop well chopped and spread= huge productivity gains after that pulse crop... fabas not so much...
    I don't have my Les Henry soils book in front of me, but he claims that is a myth. That in reality, a couple of lbs per acre per year from thunderstorms is all that can be expected(give or take, going by memory).

    Supposedly legumes are overrated in what they can supply.

    Everyone here bales pea straw. If the N is worth that much, then they are getting a bad deal selling the straw. Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 10:03 26
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    True if this is the first year that the straw was returned to the soil. But if you have been putting the straw back every year for years or decades, at some point the mineralization of previous straw must cancel out the need to fertilize for the stover growth in the current year. If not, then where do the nutrients go?
    What’s needed is a healthy soil to recycle and mineralize those nutrients properly, otherwise the potential benefit becomes a disease Petri dish, as said above when soils become anaerobic. Thus higher levels of fusarium, root rots and a lot of the issues we see today. Makes the chem companies happy but all they offer are Costly band aid fixes in seed treatments and fungicides. Needs to start with a healthier soil .
    Western Canadian agronomy in general got away from that and just promoted higher and higher fertility which leads to degraded soils and more disease levels in most cases .
    From what I’ve seen the past 15 years here , soil amendments to promote healthy bacteria are the link to getting mineralization back and healthy soils to properly break down straw and stover , thus greatly reducing disease levels and dependence on very high fertility to get decent crops . Unfortunately here , we got behind the 8 ball and it will take a while . Listened to too many “expert agronomists” that simply focused on higher fertility and promote costly variable rate, rather than soil health . It was and is all about their retail sales , not the real issues starting from the soil in the first place. Reply With Quote

  • Oct 26, 2020 | 10:10 27 Fabas are just as good Furrow. At least on this farm. Less of a pain to work in for sure Reply With Quote
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  • Oct 26, 2020 | 10:10 28 You have to wonder if less mobile nutrients from the stover accumulate in the surface layers of low til soil? How avalable is your soil analysis “plant avalable” phosphate in a dry surface soil condition?


    Fabas are know to chelate phosphates by releasing acidic root exudates that release non avalable nutrients tied up in the soil. You can have a faba crop remove 60lbs of P from the soil and still show higher soil P levels after a year of production with a lessor fertility package. Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 10:19 29 Furrow, I like the idea of aerating the soil but not with tillage. Last spring there were a gazillion earthworms when we were checking seeding depth. This fall when we disced a very small patch in the fields we were harvesting to place the tractor and disc on in case of fire, I noticed the lumps and chunks the disc turned up were full of earthworm tunnels. But where did the worms go? Deeper? Get out the track hoe! Lol, oops I forgot Reply With Quote
    Oct 26, 2020 | 11:04 30 I know it’s a swear word, but again, f o r a g e.

    Pencil out hay values. Forage seed one time cost amortized is ridiculously cheap. Perennials smash the cycle, to the point where they almost let you start over with near virgin soil and a clean slate of soil health.

    Best, for that portion of the farm, you eliminate the treadmill from hell. Reply With Quote