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    #31
    Originally posted by Blaithin View Post
    So because I’m employed in ag and have a herd of cows, I should automatically want subsidies or some sort of monetary support from the government?

    Rely on the government for my wage?

    No thanks. I don’t trust them enough for that.

    Farm groups and govs should be pushing for better trade deals and production incomes, yes, absolutely. The cost of the product has to stay linked with the cost of production on all levels, not stay stuck in the 70s on certain levels. Government policies that are applied generically to encompass farms and rural life like it’s an urban centre, like the carbon tax, also need to be thought out differently so they aren’t such hobbles. But no, I don’t think the answer is get monthly cheque’s from the government or an annual lump sum support cheque or whatever.
    All novel ideas but since no one is working on trade deals and other countries value their farmers with direct payments....

    The solution will be narrowed down to an ad hoc. ...

    Or continue with consolidation of farms...that's the policy of government for quite a while.....the BTO that is expanding is making money on agristability....run their numbers ...

    Talking about no government payments to farmers is just very naive...and a recipe for a disaster. ..
    Last edited by bucket; Oct 25, 2020, 08:28.

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      #32
      Originally posted by bucket View Post
      Talking about no government payments to farmers is just very naive...and a recipe for a disaster. ..
      I feel the opposite.

      Thinking government payments are going to fix anything is naive.

      That would be a patch covering up the issues that would be liable to spring a leak or pop off at any given time. Increasing the populations reliance on the government, making us more vulnerable to political games.
      Last edited by Blaithin; Oct 25, 2020, 08:35.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Blaithin View Post
        I feel the opposite.

        Thinking government payments are going to fix anything is naive.

        That would be a patch covering up the issues that would be liable to spring a leak or pop off at any given time.
        So why direct payments to airlines autos dairy irrigation protein industries etc etc etc...

        And why are other countries doing the same?


        But you keep subsidizing you farm with off farm employment while your expanding neighbors use your tax dollars...

        It's a noble cause you speak of but very naive...

        Please widen your view of things.


        BTW what would 40 bucks an acre do for your farm for 5 years? ???

        That's what irrigation farmers are getting to grow the same crops as dryland farmers...
        Last edited by bucket; Oct 25, 2020, 08:36.

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          #34
          Don’t assume that a wider view would make me see things your way.

          I have my opinions, I don’t think any industry should be reliant on gov payments. Once it starts it’s next to impossible to stop. I wouldn’t appreciate the generation ahead of me implementing something that I’m then stuck with for the rest of my life or vulnerable to it being removed.

          What other countries do is irrelevant to me. Other countries pay people 50 cents a day too. Maybe that’s also something we should look at to increase our profit margins.
          Last edited by Blaithin; Oct 25, 2020, 08:44.

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            #35
            Take the narrow view....

            Your tax dollars are being used against your own operation....

            While I was working off farm I watched guys expand only to learn they used government money and FCC write downs to get ahead and now there is a second generation going to pull the same stunt ....

            You won't be convinced ....learn the hard way...
            Last edited by bucket; Oct 25, 2020, 08:51.

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              #36
              I would say your both right lol
              Bucket is right , I watched the same thing .
              And I agree Blathin , less government in Ag the better but they have botched many trade relations with our biggest trade importers of Ag exports .... there is resentment there and they have cost farmers dearly the past 5 years

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                #37
                Originally posted by bucket View Post
                Take the narrow view....

                Your tax dollars are being used against your own operation....

                While I was working off farm I watched guys expand only to learn they used government money and FCC write downs to get ahead and now there is a second generation going to pull the same stunt ....

                You won't be convinced ....learn the hard way...
                Use their money. Get any grants you can get, government or private. Use programs. Take advantage of those kinds of things, that’s what they’re there for. Don’t be bitter someone used them and you didn’t.

                Those are not things that should be pencilled in to keep you afloat. Those are bonuses, benefits.

                They are different than a monthly cheque needed to make ends meet.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by woodland View Post
                  Our yearlings are at least 30 cents less than a year ago. On a 1,000 lbs that’s $300 for easy math. Hope it doesn’t stay this way for long or else we’ll either be forced to go up to 1,000 head or 0 to make it pencil out. Got more for sale than a year ago but still going to net less dollars.

                  Air Canada and Westjet can go suck eggs as far as I’m concerned. They can send any un required help on EI, Trudeau Twoonies, whatever, and park planes and wait. My critters eat cash and grass every day and are very “perishable”.

                  Time for everyone to tighten the belt and ride it out. Sold some barley for next week pickup for $5.10 which is amazing in my books. The grain side of this operation looks golden right now.

                  Enjoy the ride. Hope most of us make it to the other side🍀
                  Woodland I agree with your post. I have crocodile tears for the airline industry, AKA not a lot of sympathy . I am getting real tired of the Ag industry always having to do more with less, and it needs to stop soon or another generation will not choose Agriculture because they can't afford to do it. My calves just went to market last week. $150-200 per calf lower than last year. However, next year could be the reverse. Would be nice to have $1300-1500 steer calves again ! Here's hoping !

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                    #39
                    Subsidies to a sector almost always end up capitalized into costs. Especially in agriculture, a reliable subsidy will end up in land or input costs, as it allows recipients to bid more land and pay more for inputs. In the end you are no better off and reliant on the government. Another thing is that often they are tied to extra regulations or restrictions that happen to be popular at the time, which adds an additional burden to management or production. If you don't believe me look at dairy and see what making things more profitable did to the small producer......where is the subsidy, capitalized into quota. Blathin is absolutely correct in her assessment of subsidies.

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                      #40
                      75 billion cdn dollars equivalent to farmers in the states..


                      Billions to secondary ag industries in Canada. ...

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by pgluca View Post
                        Subsidies to a sector almost always end up capitalized into costs. Especially in agriculture, a reliable subsidy will end up in land or input costs, as it allows recipients to bid more land and pay more for inputs. In the end you are no better off and reliant on the government. Another thing is that often they are tied to extra regulations or restrictions that happen to be popular at the time, which adds an additional burden to management or production. If you don't believe me look at dairy and see what making things more profitable did to the small producer......where is the subsidy, capitalized into quota. Blathin is absolutely correct in her assessment of subsidies.
                        OK

                        so the US subsidized the Auto sector ...Canada went along with money

                        Same with airlines...

                        The steel industry got money..

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Blaithin View Post
                          Use their money. Get any grants you can get, government or private. Use programs. Take advantage of those kinds of things, that’s what they’re there for. Don’t be bitter someone used them and you didn’t.

                          Those are not things that should be pencilled in to keep you afloat. Those are bonuses, benefits.

                          They are different than a monthly cheque needed to make ends meet.
                          Having FCC write down loans to 10 cents on the dollar is what you call a bonus...or good business ....

                          It cost everyone else dearly ...
                          Last edited by bucket; Oct 25, 2020, 10:23.

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                            #43
                            I never said loans.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              """""So because I’m employed in ag and have a herd of cows, I should automatically want subsidies or some sort of monetary support from the government?"""""


                              My answer is yes.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by bucket View Post
                                """""So because I’m employed in ag and have a herd of cows, I should automatically want subsidies or some sort of monetary support from the government?"""""

                                My answer is yes.
                                So in between ag jobs I did a brief (horrid) stint at a shoe store. Not a recommended job. Anyway, the wage didn’t even cover my living expenses.

                                Should I have also wanted government support then or would that have made me a lazy, CERB wanting, leftist?

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