Who thought Norway was "hitting it"?

[furrowtickler]

No.

Ever start a 70 million a year business from scratch?

Didn't think so.

In this family you get nothing until you prove yourself worthy and capable.

The AG more than ever crowd is neither...


And I'm older than you think.

[Zephyr]

So I am curious Zephyr do you just despise farmers? Speak for yourself I certainly don't spend my winters vacationing or complaining how unfair life is. I certainly do call out stupid and short sighted government policy or tunnel vision where appropriate. I do find it amusing how posters like yourself prefer insults to rational input.

No. My brother and I farm too. I don't despise farmers...

I despise the woe is me attitude some farmers have, and equally the "I'm a superstar" arrogant ignorance of others that have never seen hard times or had to scrounge for capital.

Actually I've tried to bring rational discussion on here. It usually ends up in either a climate change argument or just runs off on some political tangent, or if it's a new concept simply gets cast aside as scary or "doesn't work".


I guess I used too big a brush... My comments should have been narrowed to encompass *some* members that continually post on here complaining about everything and yet do nothing to change it. I apologize for painting everyone in the same stroke.

While our farm hasn't known a real financial struggle in two generations, trying to raise capital to expand operations overseas, fail, try again, while maintaining your company here and the jobs families rely on is quite a stress in and of itself.

Were shut down right now too. Still paying everyone their full salaries while they are home. Can't afford to loose loyal, skilled employees but we won't be able to support them without sales forever either. It's a struggle... We take risk to profit but have a strong moral and financial responsibility to our workers and their families to keep them going too.



After all that,
I'm not even sure why I still come on here to tell you the truth...

[Oliver88]

when you have one source and want all the goodies and that source drops to nothing guess what you cant pay for all the goodies.

Trudeau cut off the golden goose and brought in Saudi shit to fill the void. Once the Canadian goose dies to guess what skippy can't pay for shit either.

You have to be really stupid to not figure it out.

I hope Morneau and Trudeau might of finally clued in that without an energy sector that our $ will drop like a stone, we will have big unemployment #’s, low GDP, big deficits.. The question is do they want the country to succeed?

Ahhhh who am I kidding of course they don’t want any industry in Western Canada to succeed.

[farming101]

No. My brother and I farm too. I don't despise farmers...

I despise the woe is me attitude some farmers have, and equally the "I'm a superstar" arrogant ignorance of others that have never seen hard times or had to scrounge for capital.

Actually I've tried to bring rational discussion on here. It usually ends up in either a climate change argument or just runs off on some political tangent, or if it's a new concept simply gets cast aside as scary or "doesn't work".


I guess I used too big a brush... My comments should have been narrowed to encompass *some* members that continually post on here complaining about everything and yet do nothing to change it. I apologize for painting everyone in the same stroke.

While our farm hasn't known a real financial struggle in two generations, trying to raise capital to expand operations overseas, fail, try again, while maintaining your company here and the jobs families rely on is quite a stress in and of itself.

Were shut down right now too. Still paying everyone their full salaries while they are home. Can't afford to loose loyal, skilled employees but we won't be able to support them without sales forever either. It's a struggle... We take risk to profit but have a strong moral and financial responsibility to our workers and their families to keep them going too.



After all that,
I'm not even sure why I still come on here to tell you the truth...

While the vitriolic talk can be hard to deal with especially if you've had a bad day, most drop in once in a while because they know that everyone here is a very hard worker. That's the tie that binds.
The best to you Zephyr

[Bowerpower]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-30/world-s-biggest-wealth-fund-dragged-closer-to-forced-asset-sales?__twitter_impression=true

Better selling a few assets in hard times than adding a whack more load debt which is what we are doing here or maybe I’m missing something here...

[macdon02]

Better selling a few assets in hard times than adding a whack more load debt which is what we are doing here or maybe I’m missing something here...

Even though my mother likes to point out "you're half Norwegian" all the time yet i was born here and so was she, it's also been a nagging question, why did half the country move here? I get lots of answers but I've come to the conclusion it wasn't that great at the time. Some days i wished we left our belief, the mother country was great, where it came from. Ok back to what they have been up to, imo they got half of it right, they drill the oil, exchange it for US dollars and the last 12 years been exchanging those dollars for US equities and bonds. Their savings account is exactly the same as every other baby boomer. But the krone they devalued, currently at 10:1 after being at 8 for quite a while and doing a quick run to 12. So it devalued 50% in less then 3 months. You gotta remember, theres shit you can do, as a govt, when your currency is that far out of whack. The problem came along with the setback in oil and equities, they were/are still leveraged into the same trade. The difference comes in as their population is much older then ours and they absolutely must have a rebound as the pull for the retirees is greater then ever and no youth to borrow against(in USD). If crude flatlines on bottom here for a couple quarters, I'm not expecting a "V" bottom like 08 as some places are now saying shut down till Sept(Oregon). It'll be interesting to see how married to the trade they are. This is what the low interest rate environment and aging population created, the solution to the last crisis created the next crisis, they went all in on the 60:40 US equities/bonds because they couldn't get yield anywhere else. I guess if we really want to be like them, take the loonie to 12:1, hopefully we don't have too many Norwegians in our govt taking notes right now. I'm not sure we have ever been in a situation like this with rates, debt, demand for USD, and deflation. Rate cuts and QE are what got us here. This will be total carnage in all countries and the weakest fall first. The demand for USD is so great right now that a over draft in a UK bank is at 40% overnight, Canada is brewing a repo crisis of its own. They simply will not lend out currency on demand. Canada is a "little" smarter then Norway, in the sense that the mechanics of the borrowing the federal govt does from BOC since the 1930's has been QE but until now it hasn't been abused. The BOC and federal govt basically play hot potatoe with cash and interest payments. However it's not perfect and if it's abused or they hammer currency too far, it kinda crumbles like a graham wafer pie crust. When it comes to currency, you really don't get extra points for being the best, everyone gets a ribbon, mess up bad enough and the population throws you out. Hence every country pretty much follows the leader on int rate cuts. Canada is somewhere before the US and after the EU and Japan as far as when we fall. Seems some are cheering the crash(Horgan and Nenshi) as they get new toys they can play with. So at the moment, no, Norway isn't out front, imo.

[SASKFARMER]

Zeph I'm curious on your 70 mill company.

Is it an internet sensation and now your farming?

Is it a grain company?

Oil service buisiness?

Is it what?

Most on here if you actually met and get to know them are actually doing not that bad. Most that complain see what's happening and don't want to lose what we have.

Hell, I'm just a little piss ant from Saskatchewan in a great big world.

But what pisses me off is that Ag is getting killed at every corner and its because of stupid gov interference and Companies that want to control every aspect of Ag except actually doing the work. Seed tax is the biggest joke coming down the pipe.

I applaud the fact two generations have never seen hardship. I Guess in the 80s you were not in a drought area or in the 2000s you weren't flooded out or froze out. Mother nature is a real bitch some times and she does knock farms down.

Yes, your criticise farmers don't adapt to new tech. Ah, we started direct seeding and one pass back in the early 1980s. High-interest rates took a lot of guys down a lot.

Variable-rate fert back in 1990 yes it was a switch with three settings but hey It worked.

First high lift sprayer in our 4 RMs and no I wasn't a fert dealer.

Three people in Canada have Autosteer the year we purchased for a tractor from Deere. One in Alberta, us in Saskatchewan and a guy in Ontario.

Any way yes all of us have failed and failed and learned from our mistakes.

Some are on their way into Ag and some are on there way out.

Yes, its a bitching place but hey it gets the info out if something with farming sucks.

I enjoy new posters,

Have a great day. Come golfing sometimes in Sask or in Florida its a great place to do business and discuss things.

Keep posting.

[chuckChuck]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-has-canada-spent-billions-of-dollars-buying-saudi-arabian-oil https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-has-canada-spent-billions-of-dollars-buying-saudi-arabian-oil

Saudi Arabia supplies about 10 per cent of Canada’s oil imports. Canada, in turn, is responsible for buying roughly 1.5 per cent of total Saudi oil exports. What’s more, Saudi Arabia is climbing the leader board of countries that Canada’s relies upon for its foreign oil. As recently as 2010, Saudi Arabia ranked as Canada’s fifth largest supplier of foreign oil (behind Algeria, Norway, the U.K. and Kazakhstan). Now, Saudi Arabia is second only to the United States.

Alberta and Saudi oil aren’t necessarily the same thing
On paper, Canada could become energy self-sufficient tomorrow. Every day we produce about 3.9 million barrels of oil per day, and use less than 2 million barrels. A study this year from the Canadian Energy Research Institute even calculated that energy self-sufficiency might reduce emissions. But think of oil like whiskey: There are many different types and qualities. A bourbon connoisseur probably isn’t going to be happy with a bottle of Old Crow and a Manhattan isn’t going to taste the same if it’s made out of Scotch. Similarly, Alberta oil is not interchangeable with the stuff coming out of Saudi Arabia. Andrew Leach, an energy economist at the University of Alberta, even said that comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. “Saudi crude and WCS (Western Canadian Select) doesn’t overlap much in terms of their markets,” he told the National Post. For one thing, most eastern Canadian refineries cannot process bitumen, the thick tar-like hydrocarbon that comes out of the Athabasca Oil Sands. Almost anybody can process Saudi Arabian crude, but only an elite fraternity of the world’s most complex refineries can turn Alberta bitumen into gasoline. To get to the east coast, Canadian oil also has to be shipped overland from more than 4,000 kilometres away, significantly adding to its total costs (Saudi Arabia is 10,000 kilometres away from the Canadian east coast, but tanker shipment is cheap). It’s also why Western Canadian Select, the industry name for most oil sands bitumen, sells at such a steep discount to more conventional oil types coming out of Saudi Arabia. In June, for instance, WCS sold at an average of USD$52.10 a barrel, compared to USD$67.87 for West Texas Intermediate (WTI), an oil category priced similarly to most Middle Eastern oils. “The oil Alberta produces is simply of a lower quality than … WTI, and is located farther away from customers,” writes the Alberta government in an online briefing note describing the WCS “discount.”

Even with a pipeline, it’s not a guarantee that refineries would buy Canadian
The cancelled Energy East pipeline, of course, would have pumped Saskatchewan and Alberta petroleum into New Brunswick. Politicians touted the pipeline as a way to supplant foreign suppliers such as Saudi Arabia. “We believe this nation-building project would have benefited all of Canada through new jobs, investment, energy security and the ability to displace oil being imported into Canada from overseas,” Alberta premier Rachel Notley said upon the project’s cancellation. However, refineries are no different than a driver cruising gas stations looking for a fill-up: They seek out whoever has the best price and buy accordingly. If Alberta can’t sell its oil on the Atlantic Coast for a lower price than Saudi Arabia, refineries aren’t going to buy it — particularly if they can’t process it. “Getting product from Western Canada, while conceptually sounding like a good way to push out Saudi oil, doesn’t fix everything,” said Jason Parent with the Canadian oil industry analyst Kent Group. As of press time, WCS is currently selling at an incredible $30 discount over more conventional oil types. While this would likely be enough to entice Atlantic buyers, the discount isn’t always so competitive — particularly if Saudi Arabia is actively trying to overproduce and drop oil prices in order to kneecap the Canadian and U.S. oil industry. This is part of the reason why Canada never built a pipeline to the east coast in the first place. A west-to-east pipeline was indeed considered soon after the discovery of oil in Alberta in the 1940s, but it was soon scrapped. “Eastern provinces did the math and found it cheaper to import foreign oil by tanker, rather than bother with the extra cost of domestic supply,” said Peter Tertzakian, director of the Calgary-based Arc Energy Research Institute. However, even if the business case is a little complicated, Tertzakian still advocates a pipeline as something Canada should do for strategic reasons. “We could be completely self sufficient if we wanted,” he said. “It’s just a question of how much we are willing to pay for it.”
A young moose posing for pictures along the highway near Tweedside, New Brunswick in 2014. It’s highly likely those cars are fuelled by Saudi oil. Bruce and Beatrice Messer via Stefan Morrone

Canada can’t really hurt Saudi Arabia’s bottom line
The easiest way for Canada to cut off Saudi Arabia imports would be simply to buy more American oil. It’s about the same price, it doesn’t require specialized facilities and considering that they already buy so much of ours, there’s a certain justice to it. The U.S. also has an excellent human rights record compared to the Saudis. But while such a move might assuage Canada’s moral compass, the practical effect would be almost nil. It’s a seller’s market for oil right now. Production of U.S. shale oil is slowing down, Iran is being hammered by sanctions and petroleum demand continues to tick upwards all over the world. All this means that if Canada could successfully prevent a drop of Saudi oil from ever entering our borders again, it’s unlikely that Riyadh would ever notice. Any oil tanker turned away at Saint John could simply set course for New Jersey. Unlike Canada, Saudi Arabia sells a product that is easy to transport and that can be processed by almost anyone. Said Andrew Leach, “Saudi oil will still sell at the world price.”
While alternative energy will eventually cut into the Saudi royal family’s palace-gilding budget, Canada probably won’t be able to touch it. Mark Wilson/Getty Images

[SASKFARMER]

Blah blah blah.

Thanks, Chuck for that Information.

Hows it going in oil country and no one wants to talk to you?

[LEP]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-has-canada-spent-billions-of-dollars-buying-saudi-arabian-oil https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-has-canada-spent-billions-of-dollars-buying-saudi-arabian-oil

Saudi Arabia supplies about 10 per cent of Canada’s oil imports. Canada, in turn, is responsible for buying roughly 1.5 per cent of total Saudi oil exports. What’s more, Saudi Arabia is climbing the leader board of countries that Canada’s relies upon for its foreign oil. As recently as 2010, Saudi Arabia ranked as Canada’s fifth largest supplier of foreign oil (behind Algeria, Norway, the U.K. and Kazakhstan). Now, Saudi Arabia is second only to the United States.

Alberta and Saudi oil aren’t necessarily the same thing
On paper, Canada could become energy self-sufficient tomorrow. Every day we produce about 3.9 million barrels of oil per day, and use less than 2 million barrels. A study this year from the Canadian Energy Research Institute even calculated that energy self-sufficiency might reduce emissions. But think of oil like whiskey: There are many different types and qualities. A bourbon connoisseur probably isn’t going to be happy with a bottle of Old Crow and a Manhattan isn’t going to taste the same if it’s made out of Scotch. Similarly, Alberta oil is not interchangeable with the stuff coming out of Saudi Arabia. Andrew Leach, an energy economist at the University of Alberta, even said that comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. “Saudi crude and WCS (Western Canadian Select) doesn’t overlap much in terms of their markets,” he told the National Post. For one thing, most eastern Canadian refineries cannot process bitumen, the thick tar-like hydrocarbon that comes out of the Athabasca Oil Sands. Almost anybody can process Saudi Arabian crude, but only an elite fraternity of the world’s most complex refineries can turn Alberta bitumen into gasoline. To get to the east coast, Canadian oil also has to be shipped overland from more than 4,000 kilometres away, significantly adding to its total costs (Saudi Arabia is 10,000 kilometres away from the Canadian east coast, but tanker shipment is cheap). It’s also why Western Canadian Select, the industry name for most oil sands bitumen, sells at such a steep discount to more conventional oil types coming out of Saudi Arabia. In June, for instance, WCS sold at an average of USD$52.10 a barrel, compared to USD$67.87 for West Texas Intermediate (WTI), an oil category priced similarly to most Middle Eastern oils. “The oil Alberta produces is simply of a lower quality than … WTI, and is located farther away from customers,” writes the Alberta government in an online briefing note describing the WCS “discount.”

Even with a pipeline, it’s not a guarantee that refineries would buy Canadian
The cancelled Energy East pipeline, of course, would have pumped Saskatchewan and Alberta petroleum into New Brunswick. Politicians touted the pipeline as a way to supplant foreign suppliers such as Saudi Arabia. “We believe this nation-building project would have benefited all of Canada through new jobs, investment, energy security and the ability to displace oil being imported into Canada from overseas,” Alberta premier Rachel Notley said upon the project’s cancellation. However, refineries are no different than a driver cruising gas stations looking for a fill-up: They seek out whoever has the best price and buy accordingly. If Alberta can’t sell its oil on the Atlantic Coast for a lower price than Saudi Arabia, refineries aren’t going to buy it — particularly if they can’t process it. “Getting product from Western Canada, while conceptually sounding like a good way to push out Saudi oil, doesn’t fix everything,” said Jason Parent with the Canadian oil industry analyst Kent Group. As of press time, WCS is currently selling at an incredible $30 discount over more conventional oil types. While this would likely be enough to entice Atlantic buyers, the discount isn’t always so competitive — particularly if Saudi Arabia is actively trying to overproduce and drop oil prices in order to kneecap the Canadian and U.S. oil industry. This is part of the reason why Canada never built a pipeline to the east coast in the first place. A west-to-east pipeline was indeed considered soon after the discovery of oil in Alberta in the 1940s, but it was soon scrapped. “Eastern provinces did the math and found it cheaper to import foreign oil by tanker, rather than bother with the extra cost of domestic supply,” said Peter Tertzakian, director of the Calgary-based Arc Energy Research Institute. However, even if the business case is a little complicated, Tertzakian still advocates a pipeline as something Canada should do for strategic reasons. “We could be completely self sufficient if we wanted,” he said. “It’s just a question of how much we are willing to pay for it.”
A young moose posing for pictures along the highway near Tweedside, New Brunswick in 2014. It’s highly likely those cars are fuelled by Saudi oil. Bruce and Beatrice Messer via Stefan Morrone

Canada can’t really hurt Saudi Arabia’s bottom line
The easiest way for Canada to cut off Saudi Arabia imports would be simply to buy more American oil. It’s about the same price, it doesn’t require specialized facilities and considering that they already buy so much of ours, there’s a certain justice to it. The U.S. also has an excellent human rights record compared to the Saudis. But while such a move might assuage Canada’s moral compass, the practical effect would be almost nil. It’s a seller’s market for oil right now. Production of U.S. shale oil is slowing down, Iran is being hammered by sanctions and petroleum demand continues to tick upwards all over the world. All this means that if Canada could successfully prevent a drop of Saudi oil from ever entering our borders again, it’s unlikely that Riyadh would ever notice. Any oil tanker turned away at Saint John could simply set course for New Jersey. Unlike Canada, Saudi Arabia sells a product that is easy to transport and that can be processed by almost anyone. Said Andrew Leach, “Saudi oil will still sell at the world price.”
While alternative energy will eventually cut into the Saudi royal family’s palace-gilding budget, Canada probably won’t be able to touch it. Mark Wilson/Getty Images

So what is it? Alberta crude is too expensive or it sells at a discount. Cant be both.

[Guest]

Oh sure it can
Its the Libtard way , flavour of the day
Ok for SA to tell us to fu ck off with our wheat but not ok to tell them to shove their filthy dirty blood soaked oil up their ass

[dmlfarmer]

I have asked this question before but no one has ever answered it so I will try again.
Could someone please show me where in Canada's accounts is the payments for Canada is buying Saudi Oil?

Most here overlook that the 100,000 barrels a day of oil that is imported to Canada is not being paid for by Canada but by private refineries, mainly Irving Oil. You overlook the fact the problem and costs of moving oil to the east coast. And as we see now, you ignore the fact that the production costs of Canadian oil is higher than that of Saudi oil and they will always beat Canada in a oil price war. And that even if we have a pipeline, it is no guarantee that Irving would use WCS as it is more expensive both to produce and refine.

So are all the self proclaimed "capitalists" on this site actually demanding that private industry should not be allowed to buy their inputs from who ever they choose? If you feel Canada should force all Canadian refineries to only use Canadian oil are you also in favor of government regulation forcing you to only buy your inputs, and equipment from Canadian suppliers regardless of supply or cost? And if you want the government to have the power to say what can be bought, expect they will also be empowered to limit who and what you can sell. And of course, as an agricultural exporter, I am sure our trading partners who we tell to screw off will be very receptive to buying our grain. Please, all socialists in favor of banning imports of oil, speak up!

[SASKFARMER]

Canada doesn't some useless Ervin Oil does and they are in bed with Trudeau. follow the money.

The poster child for Liberals. So yes you are right.

All they have to do is charge Irvine a tax comparable to what Alberta oil is worth.

So for what it's worth they are 10 and Alberta is 4 as an example tax is 6. Let's see how long they squirm.

**** I hate Liberals at the trough.

Follow the money to Irvine from Liberals.

Round and round we go.

[furrowtickler]

I have asked this question before but no one has ever answered it so I will try again.
Could someone please show me where in Canada's accounts is the payments for Canada is buying Saudi Oil?

Most here overlook that the 100,000 barrels a day of oil that is imported to Canada is not being paid for by Canada but by private refineries, mainly Irving Oil. You overlook the fact the problem and costs of moving oil to the east coast. And as we see now, you ignore the fact that the production costs of Canadian oil is higher than that of Saudi oil and they will always beat Canada in a oil price war. And that even if we have a pipeline, it is no guarantee that Irving would use WCS as it is more expensive both to produce and refine.

So are all the self proclaimed "capitalists" on this site actually demanding that private industry should not be allowed to buy their inputs from who ever they choose? If you feel Canada should force all Canadian refineries to only use Canadian oil are you also in favor of government regulation forcing you to only buy your inputs, and equipment from Canadian suppliers regardless of supply or cost? And if you want the government to have the power to say what can be bought, expect they will also be empowered to limit who and what you can sell. And of course, as an agricultural exporter, I am sure our trading partners who we tell to screw off will be very receptive to buying our grain. Please, all socialists in favor of banning imports of oil, speak up!

More than a few “trading partners” told Canada to screw off after Skippy and crew ran around virtue signaling from the first month they got elected .... Saudi being one of them
Check barley sales to Saudi before and after their virtue signaling tour ..

[Guest]

I have asked this question before but no one has ever answered it so I will try again.
Could someone please show me where in Canada's accounts is the payments for Canada is buying Saudi Oil?

Most here overlook that the 100,000 barrels a day of oil that is imported to Canada is not being paid for by Canada but by private refineries, mainly Irving Oil. You overlook the fact the problem and costs of moving oil to the east coast. And as we see now, you ignore the fact that the production costs of Canadian oil is higher than that of Saudi oil and they will always beat Canada in a oil price war. And that even if we have a pipeline, it is no guarantee that Irving would use WCS as it is more expensive both to produce and refine.

So are all the self proclaimed "capitalists" on this site actually demanding that private industry should not be allowed to buy their inputs from who ever they choose? If you feel Canada should force all Canadian refineries to only use Canadian oil are you also in favor of government regulation forcing you to only buy your inputs, and equipment from Canadian suppliers regardless of supply or cost? And if you want the government to have the power to say what can be bought, expect they will also be empowered to limit who and what you can sell. And of course, as an agricultural exporter, I am sure our trading partners who we tell to screw off will be very receptive to buying our grain. Please, all socialists in favor of banning imports of oil, speak up!

Surely to christ you have heard of a tarriff ? For the good of our country?