Sask Wheat Commission Report Excessive Basis aka Grain Companies Screwing Farmers

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Sask Wheat Commission Report Excessive Basis aka Grain Companies Screwing Farmers

Nov 16, 2019 | 15:03 1 Name:  saskwheat-2019 basis.jpg
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Here is a chart from Sask wheat that indicates the basis (what the grain companies steal). current port prices minus country price at Rosetown, SK equal the basis. The basis would include freight and handling. Freight and handling are legitimate deductions.

chart basis indicates $118.44 a tonne for 1RS 13,5 or $3.22 a bushel
$132,75 a tonne for 2RS 13.5 or $3.61 a bushel
$143.67 a tonne for 3 RS or $3.89 a bushel

This analysis from Sask wheat would indicate that the grain companies are stealing up to $2.80 a bushel approx. while farmers have just experienced one of the worst harvests on record.

I am curious are the board members of Sask wheat happy with this kind of basis?

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat....+12-%2719.pdf Reply With Quote
  • 2 Likes


  • Nov 16, 2019 | 15:14 2 Why can’t they fill out the whole chart. More keeping us like mushrooms Reply With Quote
    Nov 16, 2019 | 15:45 3
    Quote Originally Posted by Integrity_Farmer View Post
    Name:  saskwheat-2019 basis.jpg
Views: 883
Size:  18.2 KB

    Here is a chart from Sask wheat that indicates the basis (what the grain companies steal). current port prices minus country price at Rosetown, SK equal the basis. The basis would include freight and handling. Freight and handling are legitimate deductions.

    chart basis indicates $118.44 a tonne for 1RS 13,5 or $3.22 a bushel
    $132,75 a tonne for 2RS 13.5 or $3.61 a bushel
    $143.67 a tonne for 3 RS or $3.89 a bushel

    This analysis from Sask wheat would indicate that the grain companies are stealing up to $2.80 a bushel approx. while farmers have just experienced one of the worst harvests on record.

    I am curious are the board members of Sask wheat happy with this kind of basis?

    https://static1.squarespace.com/stat....+12-%2719.pdf
    Another left wing, gutless, nameless poster.

    Integrity is never nameless. Reply With Quote
    Nov 16, 2019 | 18:28 4 Pretty considerate of the Harper
    Govt. Making it hard for us to know
    How bad
    We are getting shafted.

    Much better this money go to the Richardsons anyway .
    To Folks that need it.


    It would really suck , if we had to see it in black and white every
    Week.

    What is the saying
    Ignorance is bliss Reply With Quote
    Nov 16, 2019 | 18:52 5 Same stuff can be found here except opposite results basis was shocking under single desk but grain marketing here is vastly different to you guys Reply With Quote
    Nov 16, 2019 | 20:53 6 Oh no, not another piece based off "work" by R Gray.

    Then Sask Wheat expects their "work" to be swallowed down whole.
    Where is my 2019-20 request for refund of checkoff form? Reply With Quote
    Nov 17, 2019 | 08:58 7 Show us the numbers if Sask wheat is wrong.

    Readers deserve more than insults and useless rhetoric. Especially from Weber.

    If you are that useless that you can't counter the Sask Wheat information with something substantial to disprove it, then you shouldn't embarrass yourself in public. Reply With Quote

  • Nov 17, 2019 | 09:15 8 Is the wheat basis very weak right now? Of course. Can a a farmer ( or a lefty prof) look at the basis and itemize line by line all the numbers and say this is what the basis should be? No way. Cost of carry can be figured, risk somewhat as markets are flat and not volatile can be closely quantified, but, the general lack of demand that exists for wheat is difficult to plug into basis if you're not the elevator company that has to find a home for wheat delivered into the system.

    We know basis is awful. On our farm it's a signal to not sell cash wheat.

    How much did this study cost SK Wheat? Wouldn't dollars be better spent on market development? New uses, new customers, new trade routes, building better relationships. The kind of thing the CWB was supposed to do sans the hookers and party junkets for the buyers that came to town. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Nov 17, 2019 | 10:03 9 There have been several calls on Agriville for more transparency in the grain marketing system.

    Farmers need to know what the basis looks like over the whole marketing year or several years to determine if the basis is a true reflection of the cost and risk of moving grain from farm to customer.

    Or do grain companies often take excess profits in an uncompetitive system?

    It seems that many producers on Agriville are suggesting the latter.

    Now lets see the numbers so all parts of the grain system can see what going on. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • wd9
    Nov 17, 2019 | 10:43 10 Agriculture has yet to embrace Blockchain transparency like oil land leasing for example. Everyone along the chain knows the costs and payments, hence no one takes or gives up more then they should. It was one of the fellow Astech award winners couple years ago, software developed right here in AB.

    Perhaps a good project for the million$ collected by Sask, AB, MB Wheat commissions. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Nov 17, 2019 | 15:38 11
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Show us the numbers if Sask wheat is wrong.

    Readers deserve more than insults and useless rhetoric. Especially from Weber.

    If you are that useless that you can't counter the Sask Wheat information with something substantial to disprove it, then you shouldn't embarrass yourself in public.
    Listen, I did one of these exercises a while back. I put out researched and verified numbers. No reply with any numbers, just more "prove it" statements.

    Do a little digging and research for yourself to prove the accuracy or inaccuracy of a rather important letter to farmers, paid for by farmers.

    Here is where to start:
    1) Is the sales price of DNS 14% in Portland the exact same as the sales price of #1 13.5 CWRS in Vancouver?
    2) Are the price quotes from Portland based on actual sales prices or asking prices?
    3) When will the wheat delivered to Rosetown by a farmer be matched to an export sale and what will the sale price of that export deal be at that time? Reply With Quote
    Nov 17, 2019 | 17:58 12
    Quote Originally Posted by farming101 View Post
    Listen, I did one of these exercises a while back. I put out researched and verified numbers. No reply with any numbers, just more "prove it" statements.

    Do a little digging and research for yourself to prove the accuracy or inaccuracy of a rather important letter to farmers, paid for by farmers.

    Here is where to start:
    1) Is the sales price of DNS 14% in Portland the exact same as the sales price of #1 13.5 CWRS in Vancouver?
    2) Are the price quotes from Portland based on actual sales prices or asking prices?
    3) When will the wheat delivered to Rosetown by a farmer be matched to an export sale and what will the sale price of that export deal be at that time?
    How does anyone other than grain merchant know when that grain was sold at what price. It might have been sold 2 years ago for delivery today or next month. I remember when CWB announced sales multi years in advance I bet it still happens. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Nov 17, 2019 | 19:30 13
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    How does anyone other than grain merchant know when that grain was sold at what price. It might have been sold 2 years ago for delivery today or next month. I remember when CWB announced sales multi years in advance I bet it still happens.
    What happens if they are way far off side of the current market in which they have to source the grain?

    Hedged?

    Some GrainCos have multiple shelves(read countries) they can pull/sell the grain from, wanna bet specs matter to customers and end users. That it's not always only about price to the buyer. Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 04:13 14 Walter I’d say 60% of grain sales are back to back 20%hedged 20% spec buying

    Been wrong before someone mentioned multi years sales nah easy way to lose shitloads.

    Single desk marketing got burnt by that time and time again.

    I loved the single desk in a rapidly rising market only time it worked don’t have to be a wizard to work
    it out Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 08:33 15 I admit I know little of about the
    Ins and outs of the grain trade.
    But the whole argument about the
    Board was no transparency.
    Trust us we are doing the best
    We can. But info was limited.

    For better or worse , we have gone this way.
    Supposed open market.
    But still no info, probably less than before.

    A pretty lame excuse about grade and FOB price being proprietary
    Info.
    I guess the only hope , for free market competition .
    That is supposed to work in theory.
    First .Is a rail system that works
    .and
    Enough grain co.s trying to cash
    In on the windfall by building facilities .

    Once that hits saturation .

    Then there is hope.

    Rather than take what we give you.

    The actual BS line , about competing for our business,
    Might actually start to happen. Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 08:42 16 Sawfly

    If they become saturated with facilities they will close them without even an inquiry by any government as to why...

    The Eyebrow elevator is a perfect example...10000 tonne concrete ....closed because Viterra wanted better logistics instead of spending a few dollars to expand the location....move the highway since they were rebuilding it anyway and have a straight line loading of 110 cars like they do up at viterra's GDT location...

    Nope grain gets trucked to their other locations right beside a railway in both directions.... Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 08:57 17 Being fairly close to the US border we have always compared our prices to those south of us in North Dakota. In the old CWB days it was a constant irritant to see the higher prices south of the border at different times of the year with a very difficult time make it work with the buyback etc. Post CWB have seen the price differences exist only more rarely. Doing the math today I probably am paying net .30 per bushel higher in basis in Sask than a ND elevator. Havent figured out if there is any missing deductions on the US side without them grading the sample. Some guys got caught a few years ago after having good luck selling grain they had in bins and then the next year doing a forward contract to find out the deductions made their wheat less than if they had marketed local. Bottom line for me that if the basis gets too wide in Canada compared to the northern US places like CERES will start buying a lot more and shipping it into US or Mexico markets. This seems to happen every now and then. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Nov 18, 2019 | 10:37 18 Take a look at Montana Elevator Cash Grain Prices

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/bl_gr110.txt Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 10:40 19
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    Being fairly close to the US border we have always compared our prices to those south of us in North Dakota. In the old CWB days it was a constant irritant to see the higher prices south of the border at different times of the year with a very difficult time make it work with the buyback etc. Post CWB have seen the price differences exist only more rarely. Doing the math today I probably am paying net .30 per bushel higher in basis in Sask than a ND elevator. Havent figured out if there is any missing deductions on the US side without them grading the sample. Some guys got caught a few years ago after having good luck selling grain they had in bins and then the next year doing a forward contract to find out the deductions made their wheat less than if they had marketed local. Bottom line for me that if the basis gets too wide in Canada compared to the northern US places like CERES will start buying a lot more and shipping it into US or Mexico markets. This seems to happen every now and then.
    Feb March 2008 I believe it was $20 us down south and our beloved wheat board was giving us 7 dollars. Had 50,000 bushels wheat in the bin. As a young guy starting out could have almost paid off my first land purchase with that difference. Never ever wheat board. F that Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 12:08 20
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    There have been several calls on Agriville for more transparency in the grain marketing system.

    Farmers need to know what the basis looks like over the whole marketing year or several years to determine if the basis is a true reflection of the cost and risk of moving grain from farm to customer.

    Or do grain companies often take excess profits in an uncompetitive system?

    It seems that many producers on Agriville are suggesting the latter.

    Now lets see the numbers so all parts of the grain system can see what going on.
    Transparency on sales and values in Canada has never been what it is in the US. Agree that it would be nice to see more, and in a more timely fashion. As far as this chart goes, not sure how much to read into it. For one the flat price sales values are for similar types of wheat sold out of the PNW and then assuming those values are repeated in Vancouver. There is also no time associated to when the sales snap shot in the US was taken vs the country price in Sask was taken. I will assume relatively close but its not apples to apples. I think if you could find an accurate port of Vancouver basis level, through a marketing source you can piece together what it "should" cost to get from SK to loaded vessel. $45 rail freight, $10 to put it through the in land elevator and $20 or so port costs or $75/MT just over $2.00/bu. Any spread past that is margin. Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 12:22 21
    Quote Originally Posted by Agvocate View Post
    Transparency on sales and values in Canada has never been what it is in the US. Agree that it would be nice to see more, and in a more timely fashion. As far as this chart goes, not sure how much to read into it. For one the flat price sales values are for similar types of wheat sold out of the PNW and then assuming those values are repeated in Vancouver. There is also no time associated to when the sales snap shot in the US was taken vs the country price in Sask was taken. I will assume relatively close but its not apples to apples. I think if you could find an accurate port of Vancouver basis level, through a marketing source you can piece together what it "should" cost to get from SK to loaded vessel. $45 rail freight, $10 to put it through the in land elevator and $20 or so port costs or $75/MT just over $2.00/bu. Any spread past that is margin.
    Farmers never did get info on individual sales but did get annual year end audited reports. Farmers asked for more transparency not less. Reply With Quote

  • Nov 18, 2019 | 12:45 22
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    Farmers never did get info on individual sales but did get annual year end audited reports. Farmers asked for more transparency not less.
    Yes, I was comparing what we see for sales vs. what the USDA spits out if there are sales made over a tonnage threshold. Doesn't give you a value but it gives tonnage, destination and marketing year. Canada gets CGC stats 2 months after they are completed loading. Thee breakdown and spreadsheet is actually pretty good, it just isn't timely. Reply With Quote
    Nov 18, 2019 | 15:57 23
    Quote Originally Posted by Agvocate View Post
    Transparency on sales and values in Canada has never been what it is in the US. Agree that it would be nice to see more, and in a more timely fashion. As far as this chart goes, not sure how much to read into it. For one the flat price sales values are for similar types of wheat sold out of the PNW and then assuming those values are repeated in Vancouver. There is also no time associated to when the sales snap shot in the US was taken vs the country price in Sask was taken. I will assume relatively close but its not apples to apples. I think if you could find an accurate port of Vancouver basis level, through a marketing source you can piece together what it "should" cost to get from SK to loaded vessel. $45 rail freight, $10 to put it through the in land elevator and $20 or so port costs or $75/MT just over $2.00/bu. Any spread past that is margin.
    Ten bucks for elevation? Haven't seen that for years Reply With Quote