A note to Western Canada: The rest of the country understands tough economic times

[flea beetle]

And yet the businesses that produce the oil and gas are still willing to build the pipeline to get it to the coast, but get shut down by regulatory and special interest groups. And then, I bet if there was a steady supply of oil and gas at the west coast, a refinery would follow. Imagine that...foresight! Would be nice if the leaders in our country would grab some. Scary to think that they can not see this. Imagine the jobs this would produce? Imagine the value this would add to the oil and gas products?

But that would be all for not since there is this oil tanker ban that the idiot federal government (Trudeau) put on the west coast. But you are right the liberals haven’t done anything to stop oil and gas products from flowing from western Canada.

[jazz]

Now I have to take a minute off from my Saturday to destroy dml again. yawn its getting so old.

For your information, the costs to move American ag products down the Mississippi are 1/10th of what Canadian rail over the rockies are.

Did you shut down your farm?
Did you relocate to iowa?

With market access the price of the heavy differential will close by $10 which will easily offset whatever advantages that texas has. That's whats the fing patch was trying to do when enviro radicals and whacked Marxists stopped them.

[flea beetle]

Yes hard times come to all, that is not what the west is angry over. It is being kicked while we are down that is pissing everybody off. Not one of your example conveys the same likeness as what is happening now. In your examples, it is just an industry dealing with a slowdown. They never had do deal with the slowdown, plus an onslaught from the government to make life harder at the same time as well.

Not only are crop prices falling and debt skyrocketing on the prairies, but we have to fend off a government that wants every spare dollar that may be left. And also live in an environment that the government makes harder and harder to do business in. And also in an environment where the government ruins our markets.

-Carbon tax
-Seed tax
-Shelving of pipeline projects
-Bill 6
-The oil tanker ban off of BC Coastline
-Trudeau making a fool of himself in India effectively ruining the pulse industry
-Detaining the Huawei executive effectively ruining the canola industry

Just to name a few. Granted not all, but most, are federal doings. Bill 6 was imposed by a premier that was in Trudeau's pocket in my opinion. So might as well have come from federal anyway.

Funny the leftists are leaving this alone? Must make too much sense?

[grassfarmer]

ummm, why has texas been in a massive boom

A broader analysis of US oil and gas production indicates they are suffering from the same market forces as Western Canada. Not a rosy picture painted here

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Giant-Slashes-Jobs-Amid-Shale-Slowdown.html http://https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Giant-Slashes-Jobs-Amid-Shale-Slowdown.html

[dmlfarmer]

Now I have to take a minute off from my Saturday to destroy dml again. yawn its getting so old.

For your information, the costs to move American ag products down the Mississippi are 1/10th of what Canadian rail over the rockies are.

Did you shut down your farm?
Did you relocate to iowa?

With market access the price of the heavy differential will close by $10 which will easily offset whatever advantages that texas has. That's whats the fing patch was trying to do when enviro radicals and whacked Marxists stopped them.

I see you must be drinking again. I mean I have no idea what moving ag products down the Mississippi has to do with my question to you about what government policies stopping production of oil and gas in western Canada or if I shut down my farm or moved to Iowa. Do try to keep up Jazz, and if you do want to reply, try to reply to the actual question I asked of you. I will repeat it: "Name the actual government POLICIES that are preventing production of oil and gas in western Canada. And given your statement I will add on what government policies are preventing market access?"

[Guest]

Could it be that the cost of production is less in Texas
Could it be that that WTI crude requires less refining thus lower refining costs
Could it be that the Texas oilfields are next door to the largest refinery capacity in NA and thousands of miles of pipe are not needed to transport crude to the refinery
Could it be that Texas is next to the sea and both crude and refined products can be loaded into tankers for delivery anywhere in the world.
Could it be that the margins oil producers are making are much larger than those earned in Canada reflecting the higher costs of production, transport, and refining, therefore there is more more for reinvestment in Texas than Alberta
Could it be that The US market is at minimum 10 times larger than the Canadian market based on population alone therefore there is a demand difference favoring Texas
Could it be as simple as supply and demand in a capitalistic industry and commodity

Naw, you are probably right, none of these reasons make sense, it is all Trudeau.

But, but, but
We had a thriving oilpatch here?
Keebek and east coast is getting blood stained oil from middle east where they still stone “their” women and practice female circumcision ?
But thats ok , right , because fort mac is dirty
Nothing too do with govt attitude in canada , no cant be?
Wait , maybe buisness likes trumps attitude to real life better;
You know , you hafta work if you can or you dont eat
Even if those ungrateful ****suckers in keebek and on the east coast bought our oil it would help
Oh wait we have a “no pipeline bill” from this govt, so we cant get it there

[flea beetle]

I see you must be drinking again. I mean I have no idea what moving ag products down the Mississippi has to do with my question to you about what government policies stopping production of oil and gas in western Canada or if I shut down my farm or moved to Iowa. Do try to keep up Jazz, and if you do want to reply, try to reply to the actual question I asked of you. I will repeat it: "Name the actual government POLICIES that are preventing production of oil and gas in western Canada. And given your statement I will add on what government policies are preventing market access?"

Shelving of pipelines? Oil tanker ban on the west coast? This was answered already above, you just ignore it and keep asking the same question and acting like you are right.

[dmlfarmer]

But, but, but
We had a thriving oilpatch here?
Keebek and east coast is getting blood stained oil from middle east where they still stone “their” women and practice female circumcision ?
But thats ok , right , because fort mac is dirty
Nothing too do with govt attitude in canada , no cant be?
Wait , maybe buisness likes trumps attitude to real life better;
You know , you hafta work if you can or you dont eat
Even if those ungrateful ****suckers in keebek and on the east coast bought our oil it would help
Oh wait we have a “no pipeline bill” from this govt, so we cant get it there

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.

[dmlfarmer]

Shelving of pipelines? Oil tanker ban on the west coast? This was answered already above, you just ignore it and keep asking the same question and acting like you are right.

Shelving of pipelines: No, the government actually bought Trans mountain and expansion has started. Line 3 reversal has happened, XL is held up in the US not by Canada government, and Trans Canada dropped the application for Energy East, it was not shut down.

I will grant you bill C48 which bans tankers over a certain size from northern BC waters could be seen as limiting market access, but I question how much it limits production.



Give me the federal policies stopping oil and gas production in western Canada

[flea beetle]

Shelving of pipelines: No, the government actually bought Trans mountain and expansion has started. Line 3 reversal has happened, XL is held up in the US not by Canada government, and Trans Canada dropped the application for Energy East, it was not shut down.



Give me the federal policies stopping oil and gas production in western Canada

So the federal government can mandate a carbon tax on provinces, but can’t mandate they let a pipeline go through or let oil tankers move product? Hogwash and a lame excuse.

The federal government bought trans mountain because they didn’t have the backbone to stand up to special interest groups. Why not just say this is the way it is gonna go down like they did with the carbon tax? Energy east was also given up on because the government refused to stand up to special interest groups so trans Canada gave up.

Refusal to do anything is just as bad as putting bad policy in place.

[Guest]

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.

I dont know , can you go buy cheaper chemicals in the US?
Lord knows there a lot cheaper
A friend tried to buy a grain dryer there new , couldnt . The list goes on and on
Why in **** isnt there a tanker ban on the east coast ?
Surely you arent this naieve
Maybe if we werent sending billions in trans payments to the ungrateful pricks it wouldnt bother me so much
See if you can import some cheap gas or diesel from the US if you think govt doesnt get involved
Those ****ing refineries on the east coast should be told to use Cdn oil or **** off

[6V53]

Liberals dropped the dollar, all that did was make everything more expensive, didn't help grain price or boost exports. Just lowered our standard of living.

[TASFarms]

[QUOTE=dmlfarmer;430868]Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.[/QUOTEi

If all those pipelines went in on time maybe there wouldn’t have been 100 billion in capital that left the county to pump oil in the USA

[bucket]

Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from?


Yes because I have seen graincos wreck highways having grain trucked out as a transfer instead of using the railway. ..so when people say you can't tell private companies what to do....maybe private companies shouldn't be able to send the infrastructure bill of the highways for their logistic gains. ...

[AlbertaFarmer5]

[QUOTE=TASFarms;430884]

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.[/QUOTEi

If all those pipelines went in on time maybe there wouldn’t have been 100 billion in capital that left the county to pump oil in the USA

Exactly. This was a race to access the export markets before the shale boom saturated and disrupted them all. While we dithered and pontificated about pipelines and tanker bans, the US won the race, and now there is no need for that much export capacity from Canada, and therefore there is less need for investment in the industry, which leads to less need for export capacity, a vicious circle. The demand is stronger than ever, and growing, it is just someone else filling it. If the infrastucture would have been in place here, and the investment in production would have matched it, we would have captured a large part of that demand, at the expense of our competitors.

While much of this race and unnecessary delays took place prior to Trudeau/Butts and their public anti industry rhetoric and policies, the regime change came at a critical moment, literally the last chance, and we blew it.

What every well intentioned Socialist misses, is the fact that capital is mobile, and the economy is global. If we were the only game in town, their ideas might work quite adequately, but we are not.

Check out the CBC interview with the founder of Encana. He repeats over and over that it is all about the hostile business climate in Canada now. He emphasises that Alberta oil and gas is cost competitive, but the business climate is anything but.

It doesn't do a whole lot of good to be cheaper if you can't move it. Alberta has a very efficient operation. In fact, Alberta can be totally competitive on a production basis, and profitable — with the United States that's for sure. But it's all about business climate. We're talking about investors.

The full interview:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.5343023/encana-moving-to-u-s-because-of-canadian-hostility-to-oil-and-gas-says-founder-1.5344522 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.5343023/encana-moving-to-u-s-because-of-canadian-hostility-to-oil-and-gas-says-founder-1.5344522