Seed Survey... Have your opinion recorded at 'seedroyaltysurvey.com'

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Seed Survey... Have your opinion recorded at 'seedroyaltysurvey.com'

Sep 7, 2019 | 08:59 1 Hi Folks,

Please take a few minutes and do this Seed Survey at; seedroyaltysurvey.com

For Your information: Seed Royalty Survey Update

I am alerting you to the survey at seedroyaltysurvey.com; Please take time when you have a few minutes to share your thoughts on the proposed changes to the seed royalty structure here in western Canada.

A closing date for the survey has now been set for October 15th, 2019. We ask that if there are producers you know who will be impacted by these changes who haven't yet taken the survey, please encourage them to do so before then. It is important that we hear from as many producers as possible.

Thank you in advance for your time and participation, and best wishes for a safe and bountiful harvest.

Survey being done by; Alberta Federation of Agriculture, APAS, and KAP and was announced Sept 8th 2019. Feel free to contact your provincial organization if you need more information.
Last edited by TOM4CWB; Sep 7, 2019 at 09:07.
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Sep 7, 2019 | 09:26 2
Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
Hi Folks,

Please take a few minutes and do this Seed Survey at; seedroyaltysurvey.com

For Your information: Seed Royalty Survey Update

I am alerting you to the survey at seedroyaltysurvey.com; Please take time when you have a few minutes to share your thoughts on the proposed changes to the seed royalty structure here in western Canada.

A closing date for the survey has now been set for October 15th, 2019. We ask that if there are producers you know who will be impacted by these changes who haven't yet taken the survey, please encourage them to do so before then. It is important that we hear from as many producers as possible.

Thank you in advance for your time and participation, and best wishes for a safe and bountiful harvest.

Survey being done by; Alberta Federation of Agriculture, APAS, and KAP and was announced Sept 8th 2019. Feel free to contact your provincial organization if you need more information.
I just did the 'Survey' on my laptop as the dropdown boxes would not work on my smartphone... and I alerted them to this;

This on the Survey Website...

"Welcome to the Producer Survey on Seed Royalties
This survey is hosted by the Alberta Federation of Agriculture (AFA), the Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan (APAS) and the Keystone Agricultural Producers (KAP) of Manitoba.

Recent proposals on seed royalties have generated a great deal of interest and discussion amongst Western Canadian farmers. Last winter, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency launched consultations on the future of crop breeding in Canada. A series of public meetings were held across Canada where federal officials sought feedback on new models to collect royalties on saved seed. An online phase of the consultations is expected later this year.

The purpose of this Producer Survey is to gather feedback directly from farmers, to gauge awareness of the proposals and seek your initial viewpoints. We want to keep the discussion going on seed royalties to help shape our input into the next round of consultations.

We want to hear directly from producers on this important issue. Space is provided under each question for respondents to submit written comments and suggestions. There is an opportunity at the end of the survey to enter your contact information to win a prize and receive updates on the consultations and how our organizations are responding on behalf of members." Reply With Quote
Sep 7, 2019 | 09:41 3
Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
I just did the 'Survey' on my laptop as the dropdown boxes would not work on my smartphone... and I alerted them to this;

This on the Survey Website...

"Welcome to the Producer Survey on Seed Royalties
This survey is hosted by the Alberta Federation of Agriculture (AFA), the Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan (APAS) and the Keystone Agricultural Producers (KAP) of Manitoba.

Recent proposals on seed royalties have generated a great deal of interest and discussion amongst Western Canadian farmers. Last winter, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency launched consultations on the future of crop breeding in Canada. A series of public meetings were held across Canada where federal officials sought feedback on new models to collect royalties on saved seed. An online phase of the consultations is expected later this year.

The purpose of this Producer Survey is to gather feedback directly from farmers, to gauge awareness of the proposals and seek your initial viewpoints. We want to keep the discussion going on seed royalties to help shape our input into the next round of consultations.

We want to hear directly from producers on this important issue. Space is provided under each question for respondents to submit written comments and suggestions. There is an opportunity at the end of the survey to enter your contact information to win a prize and receive updates on the consultations and how our organizations are responding on behalf of members."
Hopefully there is lots of space for comments Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER's Avatar Sep 7, 2019 | 09:42 4 I took it and told them it’s a ducking joke.

It makes seed companies welfare bums.


It makes for a inefficient system that rewards losers and screws farmers. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 7, 2019 | 10:29 5
    Quote Originally Posted by SASKFARMER View Post
    I took it and told them it’s a ducking joke.

    It makes seed companies welfare bums.


    It makes for a inefficient system that rewards losers and screws farmers.
    This ABOVE Survey is NOT being done by the Multinationals or Seed Trade Association... but by farm organizations who are honestly asking for your ideas. It deserves time to share what exactly you think.

    At the CSTA/CSGA AGM in July... a number of Alberta Seed growers let the powers that be... know;

    Amongst many other blunders...To call this exercise called 'Value Creation' was a really BAD communication fumble.... that made many many actual western Canadian grain growers [and some Seed Growers] very angry...

    As it sure: looks like, tastes like, feels like, and smells like; an overall tax increase and power grab to many many people. We Alberta folks who spoke this way at the national meetings this summer... for exposing 'Value Creation'.... for the total communications failure it has/had become... were shunned...

    However

    The lack consideration of a grain farmers common sense based intelligence...[ie] this "Seed" 'Value Creation' communication 'campaign' deserves the 'Darwin Award' of the decade; for the most likely to fail category... for a Seriously flawed and really insensitive communication campaign...whoever came up with this... needs some major 'sensitivity training'... Reply With Quote
    Sep 7, 2019 | 10:38 6
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    This ABOVE Survey is NOT being done by the Multinationals or Seed Trade Association... but by farm organizations who are honestly asking for your ideas. It deserves time to share what exactly you think.

    At the CSTA/CSGA AGM in July... a number of Alberta Seed growers let the powers that be... know;

    Amongst many other blunders...To call this exercise called 'Value Creation' was a really BAD communication fumble.... that made many many actual western Canadian grain growers [and some Seed Growers] very angry...

    As it sure: looks like, tastes like, feels like, and smells like; an overall tax increase and power grab to many many people. We Alberta folks who spoke this way at the national meetings this summer... for exposing 'Value Creation'.... for the total communications failure it has/had become... were shunned...

    However

    The lack consideration of a grain farmers common sense based intelligence...[ie] this "Seed" 'Value Creation' communication 'campaign' deserves the 'Darwin Award' of the decade; for the most likely to fail category... for a Seriously flawed and really insensitive communication campaign...whoever came up with this... needs some major 'sensitivity training'...
    Good to hear Tom. But it still is what it is , more cost to producers when net returns are going to be horrible on average until or if we get our markets back . Getting 1970’s prices for our crops and limited market access due to our political nightmare..... you guys need to back off on this seed tax for a few years or the backlash will be much stronger than you think Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 7, 2019 | 10:57 7 So what do new varieties offer? Higher yields? Better quality traits? If that's what then this approach on producers paying seed royalties is wrong.

    Higher yields will be benefit farmers yes, but elevator and grain companies will then handle more which equals more revenue. Railways will have more to haul equals more revenue. Taking this further, higher yields mean more commodity which as we see means lower prices so a plus for end users.

    Higher quality a boon to the end user.

    So then a seed royalty (tax) that is only paid by producers is WRONG because other members along the value chain benefit, possibly more than the producer.

    The moral hazard is that those further up the value chain would just pass their costs down to the farmer.

    The concept of taxing farm saved seed is even more ludicrous as a royalty on pure seed is one thing, but even one generation removed from certified cannot be considered pure enough for someone else to garner a royalty from. I purchased, then grew. Progeny is now MINE. For you, Tom Jackson to fail to protect my property rights here is very hypocritical as you fought for property rights selling wheat during the Wheat Board Wars. Reply With Quote

  • Sep 7, 2019 | 11:27 8 Unless you're living in a third world country, supply isn't an issue. We are over producing for demand. And Tommy boy, if you haven't figured out yet that you won't be getting a slice of the royalty, you are in for a rude surprise. In '89 the seed industry wanted a bigger slice, every time commodity prices get pushed under cost of production the industry looks for regulation to prevent having to eat a bullet. Im ok with less research. We always over produce eventually. The industry is relying on demand coming back. It doesn't have to. Vietnam just culled 5 million hogs due to the flu. If this virus mutates and start taking out people, we are ***rd. Attached is the price of soybeans in Argentina pesos, they'll plant every possible corner of the country in beans. Reply With Quote
    Sep 7, 2019 | 11:44 9 So are you changing sides again Tom? like you did on the CWB, the Alberta Land Bills, the Wildrose? It's unclear from your comments if you have or if you're keeping a foot in both camps until you see which side is likely to win out again.
    I'll fill it in but the survey is much ado about nothing - 3 organizations that have sat back and done nothing on this issue for over a decade suddenly deciding it's maybe worth asking their members what their opinions are - at some point in the future I guess they might decide to formulate policy based on this input. A lot of days late and a lot of dollars short. Reply With Quote
    Sep 8, 2019 | 01:43 10
    Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
    So what do new varieties offer? Higher yields? Better quality traits? If that's what then this approach on producers paying seed royalties is wrong.

    Higher yields will be benefit farmers yes, but elevator and grain companies will then handle more which equals more revenue. Railways will have more to haul equals more revenue. Taking this further, higher yields mean more commodity which as we see means lower prices so a plus for end users.

    Higher quality a boon to the end user.

    So then a seed royalty (tax) that is only paid by producers is WRONG because other members along the value chain benefit, possibly more than the producer.

    The moral hazard is that those further up the value chain would just pass their costs down to the farmer.

    The concept of taxing farm saved seed is even more ludicrous as a royalty on pure seed is one thing, but even one generation removed from certified cannot be considered pure enough for someone else to garner a royalty from. I purchased, then grew. Progeny is now MINE. For you, Tom Jackson to fail to protect my property rights here is very hypocritical as you fought for property rights selling wheat during the Wheat Board Wars.
    Braveheart, the betrayal and deregistration of seed varieties/grower rights to farm saved seed has been articulated in detail... Progeny is yours until some contract cancels our right of ownership...I was astounded when UPOV 78 PBR pea seed was confiscated in my bin... and was told after growing it... to liquidate it as grain... or pay $1.50/bu if used as seed...on my own farm.... astounding result I never thought possible...So I am high on the 'wall of shame' for fighting for our property seed rights... to not fight against confiscation... would be hypocritical...some things don't change...I get in deep .... for standing on principal. Reply With Quote
    SASKFARMER's Avatar Sep 8, 2019 | 06:16 11 Tom, I am stating my side.


    This seed tax is all about making seed companies corporate welfare bums.

    Get a check for nothing each year from stupid farmers on every load.

    its is a total crock of shit.

    Welfare for dummies. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 8, 2019 | 06:23 12 Who is buying Canadian grains....


    are the railways capable of handling more ...

    And will returns to producers be higher....


    We have lost markets

    Railways still have a long way to go

    And prices to producers are in the 70s


    But railway charges have been indexed all along as has everything else....


    Now the seed companies want indexing to make money like the railways. ...

    Grow more make less

    We lose on every bushel but make it up on volume

    Tom was sent out to feel the crowd on this issue ..the masters wanted to find out if they have forgot about it yet...
    Last edited by bucket; Sep 8, 2019 at 06:35.
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Sep 8, 2019 | 06:33 13 ....fish in a barrel.

    Maybe the SeedCos should take their model to Russia or the Ukraine, or some other corrupt lawless country.
    Then we can grow the stuff developed in those counties royalty free.
    Setting up laws to "protect profits" of SeedCos....thats all this is about. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 8, 2019 | 07:00 14
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Braveheart, the betrayal and deregistration of seed varieties/grower rights to farm saved seed has been articulated in detail... Progeny is yours until some contract cancels our right of ownership...I was astounded when UPOV 78 PBR pea seed was confiscated in my bin... and was told after growing it... to liquidate it as grain... or pay $1.50/bu if used as seed...on my own farm.... astounding result I never thought possible...So I am high on the 'wall of shame' for fighting for our property seed rights... to not fight against confiscation... would be hypocritical...some things don't change...I get in deep .... for standing on principal.
    So does that mean you have changed sides? Only a few months ago you were courageously telling all the doubters on here that a seed tax was legitimate, justifiable and necessary. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Sep 8, 2019 | 07:15 15 Like the Sask Ag and Food moron who compared this to buying a new truck. You get all the improvements and new bells and whistles with the new compared to the old one. But GM, Ford or Dodge doesn't charge me a yearly fee to drive it once I bought it.....and this is a university educated person representing Agriculture...."book smart practically stupid"!!!!! And being paid with taxpayer dollars!!!!

    Also, how many ways are Primary Producers already contributing to breeding?
    -Commodity groups through check offs
    -Paying Royalties on Certified seed
    -Through the WGRF ftom Railway over charges
    -income taxes through government funded research

    Anyone know of any other way we contribute? Reply With Quote
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Sep 8, 2019 | 07:19 16 The SeedCos need to develop what they think is needed and wanted at their own risk.
    If it has value it will be bought.
    Why should I pay an endpoint royalty on some shit variety? ....reward them for pushing anything new into the market that may have less value than what we currently have or the varieties that HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEREGIDTERED OR MOVED INTO A "LOWER CLASS".

    **** YOU! Reply With Quote

  • Sep 8, 2019 | 07:47 17 If buyers refuse to collect it, what will happen? Just like the Comi Pulse Levy. Stooges collect it, record it and deliver it on a silver platter to be frittered away. There was a day when that board earned its keep, but today they can’t even fight for the farmers they are supposed to represent in tariff war nor seed tax. Refuse to collect it! Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 8, 2019 | 09:02 18
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Like the Sask Ag and Food moron who compared this to buying a new truck. You get all the improvements and new bells and whistles with the new compared to the old one. But GM, Ford or Dodge doesn't charge me a yearly fee to drive it once I bought it.....and this is a university educated person representing Agriculture...."book smart practically stupid"!!!!! And being paid with taxpayer dollars!!!!

    Also, how many ways are Primary Producers already contributing to breeding?
    -Commodity groups through check offs
    -Paying Royalties on Certified seed
    -Through the WGRF ftom Railway over charges
    -income taxes through government funded research

    Anyone know of any other way we contribute?
    Thing is maybe we don’t want or need bells and whistles, do we really need a back up camera or turn by turn navigation etc, all that crap is to keep engineers in a job same as these seed breeders, we have crops that work now maybe we don’t need their new and improved versions. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 8, 2019 | 09:26 19 I believe part of the problem is the new business school grads that must be advising on this seed tax. They can't seem to come up with a business model that doesn't include ongoing fees. The "Noveau Riche" are now that way because of monthly billing, billable hours, etc. The trailing or end point royalties are the seed industries attempt to join the ranks of the cell phone and internet, sat radio crowd. Everyone wants their slice be it monthly, weekly etc.

    Honestly it shows the seed industry's lack of any real desire to be innovative. They lay it off on the argument that the grain industry in Canada is being outpaced. Really have their new varieties of late given us any leg up? The yields and any quality improvements have actually come from producers practices of fertilizer type and placement, fungicide, more grain conditioning on farm, etc.

    Want to see an uncompetitive grain industry in Canada? Keep grinding down farmer profitability to. The point where there's not enough margin to invest in innovation.
    Last edited by Braveheart; Sep 8, 2019 at 09:32.
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  • Sep 9, 2019 | 02:14 20
    Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
    I believe part of the problem is the new business school grads that must be advising on this seed tax. They can't seem to come up with a business model that doesn't include ongoing fees. The "Noveau Riche" are now that way because of monthly billing, billable hours, etc. The trailing or end point royalties are the seed industries attempt to join the ranks of the cell phone and internet, sat radio crowd. Everyone wants their slice be it monthly, weekly etc.

    Honestly it shows the seed industry's lack of any real desire to be innovative. They lay it off on the argument that the grain industry in Canada is being outpaced. Really have their new varieties of late given us any leg up? The yields and any quality improvements have actually come from producers practices of fertilizer type and placement, fungicide, more grain conditioning on farm, etc.

    Want to see an uncompetitive grain industry in Canada? Keep grinding down farmer profitability to. The point where there's not enough margin to invest in innovation.
    Braveheart etel;

    I have stated clearly and concisely in 'Seed Trade' consultations:

    An inefficient 'seed tax' will in time... be disrupted by a different more efficient lower cost 'direct' seed provision directly to commercial grain growers; a lower cost seed genetics alternative ... If plant breeders and seed companies are too greedy. [Imports of deregulated seed genetics from eastern Europe or China for instance]

    Where exactly that tipping point is... /has yet to be defined exactly;

    However the public reaction by commercial grain growers in western Canada... clearly has 'drawn the 'proverbial' line in the sand' so to speak... as many have concisely communicated here on Agriville;

    This above 'unpopular' perspective [to the Seed Establishment] was pointedly and repeatedly provided and articulated to the Seed Trade and Seed Companies in our meetings this summer... most grassroots seed growers are well aware and weary of seemingly never ending increasing fees and royalties... just as commercial grain growers express here on Agriville. This particular Seed Survey [being done by AFA/APAS/KAP] is a direct result of our increasing farm cost [RE:regulated monopoly / overhead cost] concern... which cannot easily be passed on to International food grain end users by western Canadian commercial grain growers. To strike a balance of access to the best most competitive seed varieties... at the lowest reasonable cost... is receiving considerable further examination... the result of which has caused considerable reexamination of these complex factors. Private property rights... and the tradition of farm saved seed... need to be recognized as cornerstones of the present grain farming culture in western Canadian Agriculture. Reply With Quote
    SASKFARMER's Avatar Sep 9, 2019 | 06:50 21 The tipping point tom this is another Tax on Farmers. We can't afford this.

    Russia and Ukraine and South America are kicking our ass.

    More taxes gets us closer to RB auction and done.

    **** I hope farmers arent this stupid and believe all the bullshit.

    ITS a tax and they will do to Cereals what happened to Canola.

    Lots of fancy brochures and the same shit we grew 30 years ago.

    Bullshit Seed TAx. Reply With Quote

  • Sep 9, 2019 | 07:15 22 So the people that are really profiting from this are the railways with higher volumes of grain to move and graincos with better volumes and quality????


    But lets say this current rain event takes the new improved varieties to feed status this year...

    where is the ROI to farmers????making it up on volume? with slow start this year that got this crop to a september rain downgrade....

    I find it odd that every time something better supposedly comes along so does consolidation...

    If there is more volume why not keep elevator open and invest in those facilities for the higher volume...nope they close them... higher volumes in this area should have justified the 10000 tonne Eyebrow elevator for an upgrade...they mothballed it...as I drove to Moose Jaw yesterday down highway 42 looking at the rail tracks 120 feet parallel to the highway...45 miles extra to haul grain... Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 9, 2019 | 07:36 23 How is other countries out pacing us in varieties?

    Higher yielding - haven't seen any comparisons under SAME growing conditions.

    Better quality - haven't seen any milling or baking comparisons.

    Better price - we price ours into the same market that would be a market or marketer issue not a quality issue. Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 9, 2019 | 07:42 24 What is worse is the Eyebrow elevator will sit idle...wont be sold...it should be a forced sale on a competition ruling but no one gives a shit...Viterra has all the facilities on the line that runs from Moose Jaw to Gardiner Dam terminal near Loreburn...

    Local farmers are more than happy to purchase bins , semis , fuel, tires and time to move their grain further...They think of it as a feather in their cap... Reply With Quote
    Sep 9, 2019 | 07:44 25
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    How is other countries out pacing us in varieties?

    Higher yielding - haven't seen any comparisons under SAME growing conditions.

    Better quality - haven't seen any milling or baking comparisons.

    Better price - we price ours into the same market that would be a market or marketer issue not a quality issue.
    Where do you think they got their genetics from????

    It only takes 5 to 10 containers of specific grain purchased by a country to get that seed...

    It doesn't all go for processing... Reply With Quote

  • Sep 9, 2019 | 10:56 26
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    How is other countries out pacing us?
    Cheaper input costs. 3rd world wages, no carbon tax, no social programs to pay for, and lower transport costs because they have invested in infrastructure.

    Got nothing to do with variety and yield. Reply With Quote
    Sep 9, 2019 | 11:36 27 Deregister and rename. ....that's the scam..... Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 9, 2019 | 16:28 28 Its nearly election time. Perfect opportunity to pin down political leaders on the issue. Ask them where they stand on the tax and hold their feet to the fire if the get elected. Ya, I know, it's a bit like squeezing a greased pig but it might be worth a try Reply With Quote
    Sep 9, 2019 | 16:35 29
    Quote Originally Posted by HITTGrapevine View Post
    Its nearly election time. Perfect opportunity to pin down political leaders on the issue. Ask them where they stand on the tax and hold their feet to the fire if the get elected. Ya, I know, it's a bit like squeezing a greased pig but it might be worth a try
    First they have to be able to spell agriculture or at least say the word....

    Scheer , Trudeau, May, Singh.....havent a fu cking clue about agriculture......zero... Reply With Quote
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  • Sep 9, 2019 | 20:37 30
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    How is other countries out pacing us in varieties?

    Higher yielding - haven't seen any comparisons under SAME growing conditions.

    Better quality - haven't seen any milling or baking comparisons.

    Better price - we price ours into the same market that would be a market or marketer issue not a quality issue.
    A local colony was bragging about selling maxim lentils to a coop it the states for big bucks. Just shipped them as bin run I wonder 12 years later if they think it was a good idea now lentils at $.16 per pound
    Last edited by TASFarms; Sep 9, 2019 at 20:44.
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